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  1. #1
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    Re: How to restart the phone?

    ltomuta can you do it for me please? A program to restart my N73 ?

  2. #2
    Nokia Developer Moderator
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    Re: How to restart the phone?

    saad3000,

    the code posted above (removed until validity verified) uses an API that is not part of the public S60 3rd Edition SDK and as such you cannot use it to write applications for your N73 (n.b. it was "published" for N70, a S60 2nd Edition FP3 device). Even if such an API would be available it would be under platform security control (due to obvious security risks) and only certified applications would be able to use it.

    Best regards,

  3. #3
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    Re: How to restart the phone?

    Hey, does Nokia deletes code? I feel like some of my examples code was deleted once or twice

  4. #4
    Nokia Developer Moderator
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    Re: How to restart the phone?

    This forum is moderated and every now and then some posts may have to be "removed" at least until they are properly analyzed. The code posted here uses internal APIs which you are not authorized to use and/or distribute.
    Last edited by ltomuta; 2007-02-17 at 15:26.

  5. #5
    Super Contributor
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    Re: How to restart the phone?

    Obviously the Python moderators don't share your point of view


    http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/fo...t=98228&page=2

  6. #6
    Nokia Developer Moderator
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    Re: How to restart the phone?

    Thanks for pointing me to that thread Paul. I took the posts out but I have to say that I am quite disappointed seeing who are those demonstrating that advanced knowledge is not always good friend with wisdom.

  7. #7
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    Re: How to restart the phone?

    Quote Originally Posted by ltomuta
    This forum is moderated and every now and then some posts may have to be "removed" at least until they are properly analyzed. The code posted here uses internal APIs which you are not authorized to use and/or distribute.
    Since this is Nokia's Forum, they are of course allowed to remove anything they want, with mainly the risk of people not posting anything useful anymore (which is mainly the case anyway). But since they do not have any other authority over the code, it's futile too: just search google for the relevant terms (although I admit that most of the users on these forums do not seem capable of doing that).

    The claim that there can be code that 'uses internal APIs which you are not authorized to use and/or distribute' is in its generality pure FUD.

    You (I in this case) may be limited in distributing the header by copyright. A partial header from an SDK is with thousands of headers very unlikely to be protected by copyright.

    Should the poster have signed some kind of agreement with Nokia where they have agreed to protection beyond copyright, such as an NDA, the poster may not actually have the right to post such information. This is not the case here (I have signed an NDA with Nokia, but it does not cover information I have received through other channels or before the agreement).

    If the poster is within their rights to post a header snippet there is no way somebody could not be 'authorized to use' the API, unless they have also signed an agreement with Nokia where they expressedly give up any such right. I don't think anybody has.

    The header in question is also trivially generatable from the SYSUTIL.LIB library file, with only the parameter values to be deciphered. These parameter values are (drumroll, please): 100 and any UID. This information is definitely not protectable under copyright.
    Reverse engineering for interoperability is expressedly permitted in the EU, and many other legislations.

    With 3rd ed, you are of course of at the mercy of Nokia as to whether you can get an app that uses this API signed. That's the life of a sharecropper.

    Regards,
    Mika Raento
    Forum Nokia Champion

  8. #8
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    Re: How to restart the phone?

    Quote Originally Posted by ltomuta
    Thanks for pointing me to that thread Paul. I took the posts out but I have to say that I am quite disappointed seeing who are those demonstrating that advanced knowledge is not always good friend with wisdom.
    And just in case anybody still feels like they shouldn't be rebooting the phone: the only reason we automatically reboot the phone is that basically all 2nd edition (and according to some other people's experience, some 3rd ed) phones may reach a state where they are no longer to make TCP/IP connections, and the only cure is a reboot. We only use this in unattended applications (see http://loca-lab.org and http://article.no/exhibition/the-head/).

    There are at least three separate ways the phone may permanently fail to make TCP/IP connections:
    - sometimes the name resolver gets an error when resolving a name, and will never retry the resolution
    - sometimes the phone seems able to create a GPRS connection, but will never actually put any data through it
    - sometimes the phone totally loses the ability to talk to the NOS/GSM side (unable to make calls, 0 signal strength).

    When Nokia starts making phones that don't require a reboot to work, we will stop rebooting them automatically.

    Regards,
    Mika Raento
    Forum Nokia Champion
    Last edited by mikaraento; 2007-02-19 at 07:06.

  9. #9
    (Retired) Nokia Developer Admin.
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    Re: How to restart the phone?

    I don't wish to stir up problems again, but we rarely delete or edit messages, I have personally only done it for vulgar language or to protect intellectual property. In most cases I make a copy and store it before editing. I put my mail address in my signature at anytime you feel a message has been improperly removed write me.

    Nokia is pretty open about its SDK and protected API's are only done so for good reasons. One is it may be the intellectual property of another business and licensed to Nokia. It may be that the API is under construction and has various implementations so what works on one version will not work under another. It may be there are third parties such as Symbian or an operator that have demanded that the API be protected.

    Ron

  10. #10
    Regular Contributor
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    Re: How to restart the phone?

    I'm continuing, since we still seem to be talking past each other.

    1. Since this is your Forum, you can do whatever you want. But it may affect people's willingness to participate.
    2. The only possible IP in headers that have been put out for download is copyright. A small excerpt is very unlikely not to fall under fair-use, so posting such an excerpt does not generally violate copyright. Describing how to use an API cannot be protected at all. So talking about IP in this case is a red herring.
    3. I do know why APIs may be non-public. But once they are out, they are out. Then it's the developer's problem if their app breaks on the next phone that comes out.
    4. Because of 2, the information will be available somewhere on the net, so removing posts on the Forum will not make the information unavailable. Thus removal of posts _only_ serves to aggravate contributors.

    Regards,
    Mika Raento

  11. #11
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    Re: How to restart the phone?

    I for one agree with Mika though this thread is getting off topic.

    I would much prefer it if support spent their time helping developers get their products out rather than policing each post for unsubstantiated NDA violations. Yes, API availability is getting better but not fast enough. Sensitive API's are already locked between three layers of security (Capabilities, vendor ID lock and SID ID lock).

    When simple things like how to change the profile get censored because they "might", not did affect NDA. (See http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/fo...ad.php?t=74617) I think Nokia have a long way to go to match Microsoft in terms of just meeting developer expectations.

  12. #12
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    Re: How to restart the phone?

    Maybe this is just an effort for Nokia to generate more support requests.

    I think that developer communities and the technology grows because of sharing even though it sounds corny. I think code posting is part of the sharing process as long as it is something you did. Even if an undocumented API was used, there was value added to that API because someone found a way to make it useful to the community. But as mentioned this is going off-topic.

  13. #13
    (Retired) Nokia Developer Admin.
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    Re: How to restart the phone?

    I moved this issue to the forum lounge because it was so off topic, yet I did not want to stifle any discussion about this.

    Some points..
    We have changed the policy of the Discussion Boards to allow file uploads. And will make it even easier file uploads and projects very soon.

    The policy on NDA materials is that we can not allow open discussion of NDA materials, there are legal reasons for this.

    Something that is Not Public but is still not NDA'd for example a list of the partnering API's or a hack using them should be allowed... Providing that this hack and the name of the non-public API is not obtained from NDA'd materials then it should be allowed. We will likely add a disclaimer if the uploader doesn't.

    Ron

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