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  1. #1
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    Suggestion: Combined Python Extras package

    Hi fellow S60 Pythonists!

    I recently got dragged into the world of writing extensions to PyS60 and while doing that got this idea that I am now suggesting to you guys and girls.

    We have a quite decent amount of extensions out there made for PyS60 which is great. It proves how active and enthusiastic this community is. I also just recently finished my first extension (that i'll be releasing soon) and I thought that it is rather silly that the extension exposes only one method and still I'm packaging it to a .sis file for distribution. This means again one .sis file for the users to install. I also flashed my phone quite recently and to get my Python project running again I had to install ten or so .sis files.

    What I'm suggesting here is that we could collect the most popular and stable extensions to some sort of pys60-extras package. It is probably too much to ask for that the extensions would be added to the pys60 package itself, due to stability and other reasons, but this kind of community supported extras package would be nice in my opinion. Good packages to include would probably be the XML parsers and the GPS LocationAPI. What do you think? I would be glad to help in compiling such package together. We could then also maintain an up-to-date API documentation for this extras package in one place which would make the development easier.

    Regards,

    Teemu

  2. #2
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    Re: Suggestion: Combined Python Extras package

    This is a good idea! We have a lot of process to go through if we want to release something officially, and the community can move much faster in these kinds of matters.

  3. #3
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    Re: Suggestion: Combined Python Extras package

    Quote Originally Posted by jplauril
    This is a good idea! We have a lot of process to go through if we want to release something officially, and the community can move much faster in these kinds of matters.
    Thanks. This is exactly what I'm after. So... I think I'll list here stuff that I think would be important for the pys60-extras package.

    1) We need to support both 2nd and 3rd edition, since these are the supported platforms. Of course, some APIs are only available for 3rd edition only. Though, luckily we have extensions mostly for 2nd and 3rd editions.

    2) Naturally, we need to ask permissions from people who have written the extensions. Hopefully, this would not become an issue. Anyway, the package would be sort of unofficial. We shouldn't hurt anyones feelings or violate licenses though.

    3) It would be important to have one single website where to collect all the information including the .sis files as well as the documentation for the modules. Would Forum Nokia Wiki be a good place or would Google Code or Sourcefogre projects be more appropriate? I would suggest Google since it has easy and simple interface and possibility to create Wiki documentation as well.

    4) Also there should be some process, although a very light one, for the developers to include their extensions to this package. Documentation Wiki would also be a really good thing since then the documentation work which is always the unpleasant one could be done by the community.

    Anyone is free to give their opinions. I wouldn't want to do this all just by myself.

    - Teemu

  4. #4
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    Re: Suggestion: Combined Python Extras package

    Google Code looks like a good option for hosting. The Forum Nokia wiki is for more "official" content. SourceForge is pretty slow, the bug tracker leaves a lot to be desired and the download mirror system just drives me nuts. No offence intended to the providers of a free service, but it is disappointing to see the same annoyances in the UI go unfixed for years.

  5. #5
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    Re: Suggestion: Combined Python Extras package

    Hi fellows,

    I was quite surprised when I saw that PyS60 domains were all available. Since I love PyS60 and I didn't want that some unexpected content would be displayed as for "python dot com" (no real need to check ), I bought http://www.pys60.com, http://www.pys60.net, http://www.pys60.org.

    My basic idea for those site was to have a good starting guide for beginners with links to the important places where they could find what they need.

    Now my second idea was to collect, with the authorization of their authors, the different great libraries they wrote to group them in a subversion main repository. Combined with a svn viewer the result is great, or at least to me. As for experimental demo you can already check http://dev.pys60.org. I've put so far PyS60 and some of my own libraries.

    WebSVN has an option to allow one to download tarballs generated on the server. This means that you don't need to worry about archiving version after version. The only thing you have to care it to commit the latest files into the server. Since subversion has a multi-revision system (independent revision per file), you can roll back to older version, check who and when someone created a bug (blame function )...

    WebSVN is also a multi-language interface! Some more advantages for everybody then.

    Another alternative of WebSVN would be to use TRAC. I'm at the moment installing it for one of my projects http://www.mymrc.org. This system also runs on top of subversion. It has more advantage for project management, bug reporting and also has a build-in wiki. You can find many projects using it, so surf a bit to make your own opinion.

    For Windows users: if you are not a big fan of command lines you can install Tortoise. This adds few option on a right click. It come then very easy to use:
    • Create a folder
    • Right click on it
    • Choose SVN Checkout
    • Choose the repository url

    You then have all the latest project files. This allow you to synchronize projects from places to places. When you finish working in the office you right click on the folder -> commit. Then when you come back home you right click on the folder -> update: this downloads the new revisioned files.

    I have implemented a front page for the site using CMS made simple and reimplementing the interface that it looks almost exactly the same as http://www.python.org. That way already Python developer wishing to move to PyS60 would find the info exactly as the main site. But I still need to contact the Python community to be sure not breaking any licenses or copyrights.

    So, here are some idea, what do you think?

    LFD
    Devices:
    Nokia E61 3rd Edition - pys60 1.4.0

    Tips and modules:
    http://www.lfdm.net/thesis

  6. #6
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    Re: Suggestion: Combined Python Extras package

    Quote Originally Posted by lfd
    So, here are some idea, what do you think?
    Phew, dude you're way ahead. Very good. I think that it would definitely be nice to have a central subversion repository for pys60 extensions, exactly like the one you have already done. However, it would be good to have this kind of combined .sis package as well of the core extensions so that users can easily install the most used extensions. The extension API documentations could probably be also added using a some wiki platform like wiki.pys60.org. It would be easy to keep the API up to date this way. I'd be eager to assist you on this.

    - Teemu

  7. #7
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    Re: Suggestion: Combined Python Extras package

    Very good idea!

    Have you ever installed a media wiki? Or I don't which one would be the best...

    I can't give the svn url to retrieve the file for security reason. I need to get or generate my SSL certificate and fight with my VDS before I try to make it ASAP.

    In the current file structure there's a bin directory where to put all .sis, .sisx, .pyd.... pending on the distribution you need. Is it what you mean?

    About the API documentation, it would be great to have the latex source files. It would be easier to generate new PDF, chm and online documentation a bit like this one http://www.lfdm.net/public_doc/lfdm_doc_v0-2/. Could be linked to a doc.pys60.org

    LFD
    Last edited by lfd; 2007-06-15 at 13:16.
    Devices:
    Nokia E61 3rd Edition - pys60 1.4.0

    Tips and modules:
    http://www.lfdm.net/thesis

  8. #8
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    Re: Suggestion: Combined Python Extras package

    I'm a bit concerned of the fragmentation here. We already have two wikis: one at Forum Nokia and one at opensource.nokia.com. Do we really need yet another?

  9. #9
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    Re: Suggestion: Combined Python Extras package

    And adding to that thought: What requirements do you have in mind that aren't met by the opensource.nokia.com wiki? It's not set in stone - things can be changed if people have good ideas how to make it better.

  10. #10
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    Re: Suggestion: Combined Python Extras package

    Quote Originally Posted by jplauril
    I'm a bit concerned of the fragmentation here. We already have two wikis: one at Forum Nokia and one at opensource.nokia.com. Do we really need yet another?
    Yes, that is true. My vision related to the pys60-extras package was only to collect the documentation of the external modules to one single place and for that some sort of wiki platform would be good. Just to make updating easier and not to have it as a replacement for two existing Nokia Wikis.

    Hmm.. how should we proceed with the pys60-extras idea?

    I think lfd's idea about the common subversion repository in dev.pys60.org is good and it would be a logical place to host the extras package as well. Or what do you guys think?

  11. #11
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    Re: Suggestion: Combined Python Extras package

    It is true that there's no point to fragment the wikis already existing, there has been a lot and enough of effort put in there already.

    We could decide all together some ways to retrieve and organize the extensions documentation.

    My opinion is that we could try to make a separated doc grouping the extension documentation. Different format could be offered to browse online or to download, just like the Python doc.

    Still, I think that the subversion container could be a great tool for us.

    Let see what other fellows have in mind.

    LFD
    Devices:
    Nokia E61 3rd Edition - pys60 1.4.0

    Tips and modules:
    http://www.lfdm.net/thesis

  12. #12
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    Re: Suggestion: Combined Python Extras package

    Yep, I don't think we sould over plan this. Maybe we should just start putting together the pys60-extras package... lets worry about the subversion and documentation later.

    I'll start testing how to implement this kind of package. Any suggestion on what modules should be included are welcome.

    - Teemu

  13. #13
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    Re: Suggestion: Combined Python Extras package

    Hei Teemu,

    Maybe we should just start putting together the pys60-extras package
    What do you mean by that, I'm not quite sure? Would you like to have a single .sis with all the libraries inside?

    LFD
    Devices:
    Nokia E61 3rd Edition - pys60 1.4.0

    Tips and modules:
    http://www.lfdm.net/thesis

  14. #14
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    Re: Suggestion: Combined Python Extras package

    Quote Originally Posted by lfd
    Hei Teemu,

    What do you mean by that, I'm not quite sure? Would you like to have a single .sis with all the libraries inside?

    LFD
    Yep This is what I'm after. Maybe not all 3rd party libraries, but the most commonly used ones. I mean it would be a lot easier for users to install only the regular Python packages plus this "extras package" than installing 5-10 different .sis packages all containin only some specific module. Of course the platform security stuff on 3rd edition makes this a bit difficult since some modules require more than self-signed capabilities. Anyways... I'm planning to see if this could be done in a way that would make installing stuff easier.

    - Teemu

  15. #15
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    Re: Suggestion: Combined Python Extras package

    Ok

    So you can:
    • embed several sis into a sis, but when trying to install it will prompt the installation of every libs. You can then remove libs one by one.
    • Take the binaries and put them all together one package, but you cannot uninstall them one by one. ensymble will surely do everything for 3rd edition and easily (simplesis option). For 2nd edition you might have to write the .pkg. I can't remember any tools doing it automatically like ensymble.


    LFD
    Devices:
    Nokia E61 3rd Edition - pys60 1.4.0

    Tips and modules:
    http://www.lfdm.net/thesis

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