×

Discussion Board

Results 1 to 15 of 19

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    11

    Exclamation N95 8GB - new v20 firmware

    Guys,

    Is it right that the new firmware for N95 8GB (firmware V20) reduces the RAM available to the flash player from 16MB down to 4MB ?

    If so, I can't believe Nokia would be so ******.

    ade.

  2. #2
    Nokia Developer Expert
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Tampere
    Posts
    62

    Re: N95 8GB - new v20 firmware

    The 4MB space has always been there - excepting Flash Video.
    If you previously have reported 16MB - that does not appear correct. Can you give more details?

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    11

    Angry Re: N95 8GB - new v20 firmware

    The 4MB limit has not always been there.

    The v15 firmware provided 16MB of RAM. For example, in flash lite 3 and v15 firmware one can download a 7MB mp3 file and play it fine.

    I'm not the only person to notice this, see: http://device54.com/blog/index.html

    If the RAM limit has been lowered to 4MB with no warning then I think this is a shocking way to treat us developers.

    Because I thought Nokia were forward thinking and allowing a decent amount of RAM availability for the N95 8GB I got one to develop with and spent weeks building an application that makes use of the extra RAM available (www.mobile-musicplayer.com). This application has been downloaded by over 2000 users on the MOSH site - these users will find that the application is useless to them if they downgrade to v20 firmware.

    All my time and effort seems to have been wasted as Nokia have pulled the plug out from under my feet. I don't realistically see how I can continue to support development on Nokia devices when for all I know Nokia might decide next month in a new firmware downgrade to lower the RAM available to 2MB or lower. How can developers be expected to support a platform with goal-posts that move this significantly with a simple firmware upgrade?

    And to think I was just about to start commercial development of some applications for some blue chip clients using Nokia devices and Flash Lite3. Looks like the iphone platform will be a better idea now.


    ade.

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Nr London, UK
    Posts
    35

    Re: N95 8GB - new v20 firmware

    Hi,

    16mb is very much needed to utilise full potential of Flash Lite multimedia. Audio in particular, but also to assist with image and memory management. It would be another nail in the coffin if it went down to 4mb without some justification.


    Cheers

    Nick
    http://www.flashcell.com
    http://www.device54.com

  5. #5
    Nokia Developer Champion
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    517

    Re: N95 8GB - new v20 firmware

    Ciao,

    can't you use AAC sound instead of mp3? Size is much smaller.

    Alessandro

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Nr London, UK
    Posts
    35

    Re: N95 8GB - new v20 firmware

    Hi Alessandro,


    Even if its lower file size, it still won't enable playback of full length music tracks. Also what if the files are local and in MP3 format?

    There is no way around it, 4mb is not enough to support music apps, especially as FL requires double memory to playback native audio eg. 3mb track requires 6mb memory.


    Cheers

    Nick
    http://www.flashcell.com
    http://www.device54.com

  7. #7
    Regular Contributor
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    134

    Cool Re: N95 8GB - new v20 firmware

    Howdy,

    There seems to be some mixed messaging here. I'll shortly write down my knowledge of the situation here:

    1. Streaming FLV can access upto 16MB memory. SWF can access upto 4MB
    2. For flash stub applications memory limit is raised from 2MB to 4MB. If a Flash stub application needs more then it's possible with Flash SDK API: More info in the Wiki


    I think the information that there would have been 16MB for Flash Player before is somehow in error. Does anyone have experience of 16MB being actually available for a standalone swf (not stub)? The guys who code the flash stuff in S60 said it never was

    Another question is how much really is posssible and how much is really needed. Please remember we are talking about devices with limited resources here. I will surely convey all your worries to the aforementioned "guys who code the flash stuff in S60". But of course good justification is needed.

    Cheers
    Riku Salminen
    Forum Nokia
    Last edited by Risalmin; 2008-06-10 at 14:49.

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    11

    Unhappy Re: N95 8GB - new v20 firmware

    "I think the information that there would have been 16MB for Flash Player before is somehow in error. "

    No it is not in error. Anyone can open a swf in the flash player under firmware v15 on the N95-2 8GB and it has 16Mb of ram available. This is fact. Some people might not like that this is fact - but that doesn't change anything. N95-2 8GB phones are still being sold and most of the ones I've seen for sale still come with the v15 firmware that has this capability installed.

    But the v20 firmware is out and the limit is now reduced to 4Mb. So if any of these users install v20 firmware their phone is downgraded drastically in terms of flashlite3 capabilities.

    Btw, I have liased with Jukka of KuneriLite (those guys rock) to investigate and using stubs it is possible to get 8Mb ram on an N95-2 8GB with v20 firmware. This is the maximum at present with KuneriLite and v20 firmware. Previously, with v15 firmware and without using stubs KuneriLite enabled 16Mb of ram in the flash player (using external player choice and not the stub choice).


    "But of course good justification is needed."
    how about "thousands of users now can't use the application I developed because Nokia drastically reduced the phones capabilities?"

    4Mb is far too small for many applications especially as a typical mp3 file could be 7Mb in size and then remember we need twice the size of that to use it - 7Mb to download it and then another 7Mb to play it. So without the application itself 14MB is needed!

    "how much really is possible"
    well I know 16Mb is really possible as I was happily using my application for a couple of months - with other applications also happily running in the background.

    "how much is really needed"
    As much as we can get. Ideally I'd like 32Mb ram - so I could create an application for mixing audio streams or composing music - or simply downloading one mp3 while the previous one plays and then fading between them at the transition point etc. Indeed, flashlite memory management is not very good so this makes matters worse meaning we need more.

    The question is not why should we have 16Mb - more why should Nokia have reduced it to a paltry 4Mb when there is no reason to do so? and when will they rectify this? (if they will).

    I am scheduled to develop a large eLearning project (for several very big brands) and was hoping to use flashlite on N95 phones - but I cannot do this if I don't get serious answers to my concerns and know what to expect further down the line. I have other platform choices and may have to keep my commercial efforts away from FlashLite/Nokia.

    Btw, Mark said:
    "As reported in Adobe Device Central the device should support 16mb in standalone mode. It does however look like this has been changed and we will work to discover what happened."

    Thanks Mark, at least someone appears to be listening and acknowledging the fact that the v20 firmware is a downgrade in a very real sense and that 16Mb was the norm until v20 came out.

    ade.

    p.s. Still no sign of Simon Ellis and his response ?
    Last edited by aderutter; 2008-06-10 at 17:30.

  9. #9
    (Retired) Nokia Developer Admin.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    4,664

    Re: N95 8GB - new v20 firmware

    I don't know who Simon Ellis is but Stephen Ellis has undertaken other duties but even if he wasn't there is nothing he can do or say about hardware.
    Forum Nokia is for developer support. Often those developers work on other products and platforms. Therefore we keep a wall between Forum Nokia developer support and Nokia product support.

    You need to get a product manager and discuss these things with them. Not much of your ideas here will get the attention they seem to deserve.

    Ron

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    11

    Re: N95 8GB - new v20 firmware

    Hi Ron,

    Thanks for replying, and apologies to Stephen or getting his forename wrong, however if Stephen wasn't going to reply he shouldn't have told me he was, and given that he did it would have at least been polite to post saying it was not his field and maybe advising who I should be talking to.

    As for this being a forum for developer support. Well I'm a developer and I need support
    To recap and at the risk of becoming repetitive, the phone's capabilities have been reduced by what I perceive to be a fault in the firmware. This is not a hardware bug, but a firmware software bug. And I can't find anywhere else to report this bug.

    Do you happen to know who the Product Manager for N95-2 8GB would be?


    ade.

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    11

    Re: N95 8GB - new v20 firmware

    Quote Originally Posted by aderutter View Post
    Hi Ron,

    Do you happen to know who the Product Manager for N95-2 8GB would be?
    I guess the silence means the answer is "no". thanks for the courtesy of a reply.

    ade.

Similar Threads

  1. N95 8GB Unknown Product Code 0553640
    By marslanoglu in forum General Development Questions
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 2008-12-09, 04:35
  2. N95 + Location API + V20 Firmware = no-go ?
    By Tiger79 in forum Mobile Java General
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 2008-03-05, 12:13
  3. 2 questions on the N95 8GB...
    By Stephan.van.Zyl in forum General Development Questions
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 2008-01-09, 23:46
  4. Firmware version - N95 8GB
    By heuven in forum General Development Questions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 2007-12-07, 22:51
  5. cna sombedy check this and fix it..about n95 8gb
    By acedeejay in forum General Development Questions
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 2007-10-25, 14:58

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
×