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  1. #1
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    Exclamation N95 8GB - new v20 firmware

    Guys,

    Is it right that the new firmware for N95 8GB (firmware V20) reduces the RAM available to the flash player from 16MB down to 4MB ?

    If so, I can't believe Nokia would be so ******.

    ade.

  2. #2
    Nokia Developer Expert
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    Re: N95 8GB - new v20 firmware

    The 4MB space has always been there - excepting Flash Video.
    If you previously have reported 16MB - that does not appear correct. Can you give more details?

  3. #3
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    Angry Re: N95 8GB - new v20 firmware

    The 4MB limit has not always been there.

    The v15 firmware provided 16MB of RAM. For example, in flash lite 3 and v15 firmware one can download a 7MB mp3 file and play it fine.

    I'm not the only person to notice this, see: http://device54.com/blog/index.html

    If the RAM limit has been lowered to 4MB with no warning then I think this is a shocking way to treat us developers.

    Because I thought Nokia were forward thinking and allowing a decent amount of RAM availability for the N95 8GB I got one to develop with and spent weeks building an application that makes use of the extra RAM available (www.mobile-musicplayer.com). This application has been downloaded by over 2000 users on the MOSH site - these users will find that the application is useless to them if they downgrade to v20 firmware.

    All my time and effort seems to have been wasted as Nokia have pulled the plug out from under my feet. I don't realistically see how I can continue to support development on Nokia devices when for all I know Nokia might decide next month in a new firmware downgrade to lower the RAM available to 2MB or lower. How can developers be expected to support a platform with goal-posts that move this significantly with a simple firmware upgrade?

    And to think I was just about to start commercial development of some applications for some blue chip clients using Nokia devices and Flash Lite3. Looks like the iphone platform will be a better idea now.


    ade.

  4. #4
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    Re: N95 8GB - new v20 firmware

    Hi,

    16mb is very much needed to utilise full potential of Flash Lite multimedia. Audio in particular, but also to assist with image and memory management. It would be another nail in the coffin if it went down to 4mb without some justification.


    Cheers

    Nick
    http://www.flashcell.com
    http://www.device54.com

  5. #5
    Nokia Developer Champion
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    Re: N95 8GB - new v20 firmware

    Ciao,

    can't you use AAC sound instead of mp3? Size is much smaller.

    Alessandro

  6. #6
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    Re: N95 8GB - new v20 firmware

    Hi Alessandro,


    Even if its lower file size, it still won't enable playback of full length music tracks. Also what if the files are local and in MP3 format?

    There is no way around it, 4mb is not enough to support music apps, especially as FL requires double memory to playback native audio eg. 3mb track requires 6mb memory.


    Cheers

    Nick
    http://www.flashcell.com
    http://www.device54.com

  7. #7
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    Re: N95 8GB - new v20 firmware

    Ciao Nick,

    I have done multimedia apps without relying on firmware upgrades, but I had control over the content so I could make the content 'fit' the memory limits.
    I have used AAC music format and had no issues loading them and play them. You can down-sample to an acceptable degree without degrading the quality.

    If you do not have control over content, it's a different story!

    I any case I would not rely on a single firmware since things changes and this case demonstrate it.

    I agree more memory would be great!

    Alessandro

  8. #8
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    Re: N95 8GB - new v20 firmware

    Hi Alessandro,

    Yeah AAC is a great format and a lot more optimised. But I think the point that needs to be made is that 4mb rules out any music applications and quite a few image related applications. You cant playback a 3 minute audio track with only 4mb of memory, even if it is AAC.

    So the question remains, is it really necessary? Is there a reason why its 4mb and not say 8mb? Were music playback and image apps considered when the decision was made to reduce it to 4mb?


    Cheers

    Nick
    http://www.flashcell.com
    http://www.device54.com

  9. #9
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    Angry Re: N95 8GB - new v20 firmware downgrade

    Out of interest, does anyone know how much RAM Nokia could theoretically assign to the flash lite player? - how much physical RAM is there in the device and how much does the "OS" use "generally"?


    However, the main question remains:
    Why has the N95 8GB flash lite 3 player had it's capabilities so drastically reduced?

    My only guess is that there has maybe been an internal decision at Nokia to align all hardware products flash lite 3 capabilities - so they have "crippled" N95 8GB capabilities to the lowest common denominator of other less capable phones. If someone from Nokia can elucidate on this possibility I would appreciate it.


    The main issue remains:
    How can developers be expected to support a platform that can have such fundamental changes enforced without warning or known reason?

    After all, what happens to the software products that run in 4MB of RAM if next month Nokia reduce the memory available to 2MB? What if these are commercial products and how will the purchasers react? Can someone from Nokia please tell us what to expect in the future and advise why we should believe them?


    Lastly:

    As it stands I seemingly have thousands of users I need to inform and warn not to downgrade to v20 firmware - but what should I tell them? If someone from Nokia can advise please?


    ade

  10. #10
    Nokia Developer Champion
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    Re: N95 8GB - new v20 firmware

    Ciao,

    there is a Wiki article explaining the memory situation.
    Alessandro

  11. #11
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    Unhappy Re: N95 8GB - new v20 firmware

    Hi Alessandro,

    Thanks for keeping an eye on this thread

    Unfortunately I'm not sure if that wiki entry offers any info. relevant to my issue - as it sems to be aimed at flash stub applications (my application is not a flash stub - it's a pure flash application). My authoring environment is Flash CS3 itself, no C++ used.

    It does mention a 2mb limit for flash stubs though and seems to suggest a workaround to raise that to 4mb. However, in firmware v15 the N95-2 8GB has 16mb of ram available, not 2mb and not 4mb. in firmware v20 this has been reduced by Nokia to 4mb.

    I'm still wating for Simon Ellis to provide me with a reply here - he said he would provide a reply within 24 hours but that was four days ago


    ade.

  12. #12
    Product Specialist
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    Re: N95 8GB - new v20 firmware

    Hi,

    As reported in Adobe Device Central the device should support 16mb in standalone mode. It does however look like this has been changed and we will work to discover what happened.

    Ade, you should investigate using something like KuneriLite or SWF2SIS which will handle the creation of a stub application for you. When creating the application these tools will allocate larger heaps using the method described in the wiki.

    Of course there is no guarantee that 16mb can be allocated, which I suspect is a reason for reducing it.
    Mark Doherty
    Developer Evangelist
    Adobe Systems, Mobile and Devices EMEA

  13. #13
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    Re: N95 8GB - new v20 firmware

    Hello,
    KuneriLite allocates 16MB for the stub without problem,
    but the patch should be installed after installing the Wizard:
    http://wiki.kunerilite.net/index.php...Patch_0.9.6.2b

    Im curious to know the results, if you check this out also with KuneriLite.

    Jukka

  14. #14
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    Re: N95 8GB - new v20 firmware

    Just in case this thread turns into a bug report for v20 firmware, I am experiencing a problem where all SWF screensavers display in landscape mode on v20 firmware for N95. Here is my original thread.

    http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/fo...d.php?t=135697

  15. #15
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    Cool Re: N95 8GB - new v20 firmware

    Howdy,

    There seems to be some mixed messaging here. I'll shortly write down my knowledge of the situation here:

    1. Streaming FLV can access upto 16MB memory. SWF can access upto 4MB
    2. For flash stub applications memory limit is raised from 2MB to 4MB. If a Flash stub application needs more then it's possible with Flash SDK API: More info in the Wiki


    I think the information that there would have been 16MB for Flash Player before is somehow in error. Does anyone have experience of 16MB being actually available for a standalone swf (not stub)? The guys who code the flash stuff in S60 said it never was

    Another question is how much really is posssible and how much is really needed. Please remember we are talking about devices with limited resources here. I will surely convey all your worries to the aforementioned "guys who code the flash stuff in S60". But of course good justification is needed.

    Cheers
    Riku Salminen
    Forum Nokia
    Last edited by Risalmin; 2008-06-10 at 14:49.

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