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  1. #1
    Registered User
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    Jun 2008
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    2

    Post Java App Midlet certification (new thread)

    Sorry that I'm high-jacking this thread.
    It is my first post as well, i hope it fits into this topic.

    In the last couple of days I was searching for the right certificate and I'm quite disappointed about the trustlevel you get even when the application is signed.

    I hope that somebody can confirm the things I investigated.
    On this page there is a quite big junk of knowledge, where you can spend a week and you don't even understand all aspects:
    http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.ph...curity_Domains

    My point of knowledge(an example):
    I have a Symbian S60 FP1 Phone like the N95.
    I have an application which is unsigned.
    So by default i get this rights:

    Code:
                      No access  Ask always  Ask first time  Always allowed 
    Network access    yes        yes         default         - 
    Messaging         yes        default     -               - 
    App auto start    yes        yes         default         -
    Connectivity      yes        yes         default         yes
    Multimedia        yes        default     yes             -
    Read user data    yes        default     -               -
    Edit user data    yes        default     -               -
    Positioning       yes        default     yes             -
    Landmarks         yes        yes         default         -
    Default means that without any manual changes the application starts with this rights.
    This is not much and you (as a developer) have to delegate the users to the option-tab, where they have to change manually the rights for this application.

    Signing will help me (I thought) - so I have to sign the application, no problem.
    But the more I read the more I understand that signing is nearly useless.

    Same phone - signed application:
    Code:
                      No access  Ask always  Ask first time  Always allowed 
    Network access    yes        yes         default         yes
    Messaging         yes        default     -               -
    App auto start    yes        yes         default         yes
    Connectivity      yes        -           default         yes
    Multimedia        yes        -           default         yes
    Read user data    yes        default     yes             yes
    Edit user data    yes        default     yes             yes
    Positioning       yes        yes         default         yes
    Landmarks         yes        -           default         yes
    Authentication    yes        -           default         yes
    This ask first time column is quite misleading. I want to write a push registry application. So the application starts, asks fo permission registers, ends. After some time it starts again and of course it asks again because the application is started again. So for a good pushregistry-application it is mandatory to set rights to "always allowed". This is only possible by telling the user to go into options-menu and set a higher security level. Okay in this point a signed application has its strength because now you are able to select the "always allowed"-option. But for an application developer it is not possible automate this process for the user, even if the application is signed.

    Next drawback. I need an application which can autostrat itself and connect to the internet. With a (versign) signed application it is not possible to give the application both rights "app auto start" & "network access". Every time i set the first one to "always allowed" the second one is set to "ask first time" and vice versa.

    Offers a "java verified" application something like this:
    Code:
                      No access  Ask always  Ask first time  Always allowed 
    Network access    yes        yes         yes             default
    Messaging         yes        yes         yes             default
    App auto start    yes        yes         yes             default
    Connectivity      yes        yes         yes             default
    Multimedia        yes        yes         yes             default
    Read user data    yes        yes         yes             default
    Edit user data    yes        yes         yes             default
    Positioning       yes        yes         yes             default
    Landmarks         yes        yes         yes             default
    Authentication    yes        yes         yes             default
    Or is it possible to change this behaviour by changing the manifest - as far as I can see it is not possible.

    My minimum requirement is something like that:
    Code:
                      No access  Ask always  Ask first time  Always allowed 
    Network access    yes        yes         yes             default
    App auto start    yes        yes         yes             default
    Connectivity      yes        yes         yes             default
    Read user data    yes        yes         yes             default
    Edit user data    yes        yes         yes             default
    Or ist it possible to change "Ask first time"(in terms of session) into "Ask first time"(right after installation and then never again)?

    I hope somebody can give me some hints howto ship around this troublesome cliffs.

    Best regards,
    Tom

  2. #2
    (Retired) Nokia Developer Admin.
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    Jan 2006
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    Michigan
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    4,664

    Re: Java App Midlet certification (new thread)

    I created a new thread for this message.

  3. #3
    Nokia Developer Champion
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Rome, Italy
    Posts
    2,406

    Re: Java App Midlet certification (new thread)

    Hi Tom,

    about your points:

    * Autostart and network access cannot have "Always allowed" access level at the same time, as pointed out here:
    http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/fo...d.php?t=106285
    All you could do is obtain (thing more than difficult) an operator/manufacturer certificate

    * Default access levels are not changeable in any way, so, the only option is to let the user change them manually (fortunately, some phones give the "Always allowed" option with the first request popup)

    Hope it helps,
    Pit

  4. #4
    Super Contributor
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    Apr 2003
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    USA, CA
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    7,191

    Re: Java App Midlet certification (new thread)

    Some additional comments

    Related to the Wiki page you referred to. If you have any suggestions how to make that page more clear, please do not hesitate to make some suggestions!

    Just FYI: There is two domains which provide the full access you are looking for: Manufacturer and Operator domain. The certificates for these domains are controlled by the manufacturer and operator (this certificate does not always exist, though) and getting you MIDlet signed with those certificates requires close partnering (and usually fulfilling some other requirements) with the respective company.

    Also some phones allow the user to change the access settings permanently when the confirmation dialog is shown. On those phones the user does not have to find the settings menu...
    Some new Sony-Ericsson phones have that functionality and also S^0 3rd Edition FP2 phones should have that (although I have not confirmed that myself yet)

    Hartti
    Last edited by hartti; 2008-06-13 at 19:27. Reason: typos

  5. #5
    Registered User
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    2

    Re: Java App Midlet certification (new thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by hartti View Post
    Related to the Wiki page you referred to. If you have any suggestions how to make that page more clear, please do not hesitate to make some suggestions!
    The only thing which was a little tricky was the relation between the matrix (-,yes,default) and the program-manager -> options -> suite-settings. If this comes out a little clearer than all is pure vanilla. You did a real good job. This source was far more informative/compact than everything else I read about signing&J2ME before.

    Just FYI: There is two domains which provide the full access you are looking for: Manufacturer and Operator domain. The certificates for these domains are controlled by the manufacturer and operator (this certificate does not always exist, though) and getting you MIDlet signed with those certificates requires close partnering (and usually fulfilling some other requirements) with the respective company.
    I don't know if our project is big enough. I want to program a checklist/reminder-application for a clinical trial with 500 participants.

    Also some phones allow the user to change the access settings permanently when the confirmation dialog is shown. On those phones the user does not have to find the settings menu...
    Some new Sony-Ericsson phones have that functionality and also S^0 3rd Edition FP2 phones should have that (although I have not confirmed that myself yet)
    Good to know.
    Finding the right smartphone could be a solution for the clinical trial.

    Thanks for the fast and competent answers,
    Tom

  6. #6
    Super Contributor
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    Re: Java App Midlet certification (new thread)

    The only thing which was a little tricky was the relation between the matrix (-,yes,default) and the program-manager -> options -> suite-settings. If this comes out a little clearer than all is pure vanilla.
    Ouch. That's the had part as the phones display these things in a little different ways. I wanted to use same format and terms for all examples...

    Hartti

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