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  1. #1
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    Talk to the Guru: Lasse Mäki, CEO JoikuSoft

    The Talk to the Guru series welcomes Lasse Mäki to the Forum Nokia community. Lasse is CEO of JoikuSoft and the technical force behind JoikuSpot, an application that turns Nokia devices into WiFi hot spots. JoikuSoft was released in February of this year at Mobile World Congress, already has over 200,000 users, and last week won the grand prize in the LBS Challenge - APAC presented in Singapore. Lasse has just about recovered from the long flight home, and I'm looking forward to the conversation with him.

    Note: Because JoikuSpot won the LBS Challenge, but our discussion will focus on the technical details of WiFi connections over mobile devices, we will link from the Location Based Services and Navigation forum but conduct this coversation in the Wired and Wireless Interfaces forum. Unlike previous Talk to the Guru sessions, this one will continue for a couple of weeks. So please welcome Lasse to the community and feel free to tap his experience in making WiFi work in the mobile world.

  2. #2
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    JoikuSpot Background

    Lasse, to kick things off, why don't you give us a quick overview of what JoikuSpot does, and the difference between the free version you're already distributing and the Premium version you're about to release.

  3. #3
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    Re: JoikuSpot Background

    Hi Kevin and thanks for this opportunity.

    JoikuSpot is a tiny 75 kB application that you install to the S60 3rd ed phone. It shares the phones 3G connection over WLAN (Wi-fi) to any Wi-Fi device around. This means that the phone actually becomes a Wi-Fi Hotspot. If you want, you can easily encrypt the signal so that not everyone can access your hotspot.
    Naturally you can also leave it open and share some capacity with others, but the choice is yours.


    JoikuSpot Light is and will stay free. You can download it directly from http://www.joiku.com/?action=product...product_id=310
    or www.joikuspot.com

    We are very soon introducing new Premium version and it will have a small one time license fee.

    The main difference between JoikuSpot Light and Premium is that Premium has full NAT inside. Light again supports only HTTP and HTTS protocols. Premium is intended more for business users where Light is freeware. We have to live too you know...

    In Premium you can also remove the landing page. In JoikuSpot Light the first hop always goes through www.joikuspot.com.







    Quote Originally Posted by kevin_s2f View Post
    Lasse, to kick things off, why don't you give us a quick overview of what JoikuSpot does, and the difference between the free version you're already distributing and the Premium version you're about to release.

  4. #4
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    Re: Talk to the Guru: Lasse Mäki, CEO JoikuSoft

    Since JoikuSpot runs on many mobile devices, and lets other mobile devices connect to it, you have probably learned a lot about the subtle variations in the implementation of WiFi. How do you go about testing connectivity, and what are some of the main things you have learned about the implementations currently in the field?

  5. #5
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    Re: Talk to the Guru: Lasse Mäki, CEO JoikuSoft

    Well, we have learned that WiFi is not so compatible as it appears. The basic challenge comes from the fact that Symbian OS and Nokia phones do not support phone acting as WLAN infrastructure mode access point. Instead we had to rely on WLAN ad hoc mode and create WiFi hotspot using that technique.

    Well, this again brings some challenges with the other devices. For example game consoles like Sony PSP or Nintendo DS require that the connection to internet is done over WLAN infrastructure mode. They however support WLAN ad hoc for local gaming.

    We did a LOT testing in the lab and also listened what the users had to say. Still the number of test cases is tremendous as there are so many devices with WiFi nowadays. And the number keeps growing: Today laptops, game consoles, MP3 players, digital cameras; tomorrow cars, fridges, vending machines etc

    One strange failure that occurred was actually between Nokia phone as WiFI base station and old IBM laptop connecting to it.
    We found out that the WLAN chipsets between Nokia phones and old IBM laptops were not so compatible as one would imagine. Old IBM keeps disconnecting or even totally failing the connection. At the same time a laptop from other vendor worked like a dream.


    The most strangest case was with Apple iTouch. We found out that a new out of box or re-flashed iTouch actually "calls home" during the first connection. This "home call" must be done over WLAN infrastructure mode. After that iTouch starts to support also WLAN ad hoc mode. Naturally we have had iTouch running a while at lab and home before the JoikuSpot tests and were not able to find out this feature in the start.

    Testing and debugging seems to work:
    We were last week in Singapore in CommunicAsia and there were over 75 (seventy five) WLAN APs around. 2,4 Ghz frequency was pretty red, I would say.
    JoikuSpot still worked through three day demos with two laptops, two Apple iTouches and one Nokia Internet Tablet. The only bad thing was that we were roaming 3G data through Finland... Most probable we have the use the prize form LBS Challenge to phone bills...







    Quote Originally Posted by kevin_s2f View Post
    Since JoikuSpot runs on many mobile devices, and lets other mobile devices connect to it, you have probably learned a lot about the subtle variations in the implementation of WiFi. How do you go about testing connectivity, and what are some of the main things you have learned about the implementations currently in the field?

  6. #6
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    Re: Talk to the Guru: Lasse Mäki, CEO JoikuSoft

    Quote Originally Posted by joikusoft View Post
    We did a LOT testing in the lab and also listened what the users had to say. Still the number of test cases is tremendous as there are so many devices with WiFi nowadays.
    Other than one copy each of a whole lot of devices you need to test, what other instrumentation do you use?

  7. #7
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    Re: Talk to the Guru: Lasse Mäki, CEO JoikuSoft

    We used few WLAN scanners for debugging: Wireshark is pretty good one especially for Linux. Also AirPCAP is pretty good, especially for Windows
    http://www.cacetech.com/products/airpcap_family.htm

  8. #8
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    Re: Talk to the Guru: Lasse Mäki, CEO JoikuSoft

    Hi Lasse, good to hear about JoikuSpot. The app seems to be really worth using and will be of good interest to lot of users. In India, we don't have 3G yet, hopefuly I can try this app with GPRS instead of 3G.

    Regards
    Gopal

  9. #9
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    Re: Talk to the Guru: Lasse Mäki, CEO JoikuSoft

    Hi Gopal,

    GPRS & Edge works quite well, naturally with lower speed.

    The only bad side in GPRS is that it does not allow simultaneus call & data surfing. If you are using JoikuSpot and there's an incoming call, the data connection will be blocked during the call. After the call data connection will be automatically restored.

    I was actually few weeks ago in Northern Finland and it also lacks 3G for most parts. Connection worked well with GPRS.

    Regards,

    Lasse



    Quote Originally Posted by balagopalks View Post
    Hi Lasse, good to hear about JoikuSpot. The app seems to be really worth using and will be of good interest to lot of users. In India, we don't have 3G yet, hopefuly I can try this app with GPRS instead of 3G.

    Regards
    Gopal

  10. #10
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    Re: Talk to the Guru: Lasse Mäki, CEO JoikuSoft

    Thats great! Now I have more reasons to give a hands on try with JoikuSpot!

    Regards
    Gopal

  11. #11
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    WiFi / WLAN Settings on Nokia Devices

    Lasse, you probably have more experience using WLAN on Nokia devices than most people in Nokia. Any tips you can give us on WLAN configuration for best operation with JoikuSpot? Have you done any testing of performance vs. power consumption?
    Last edited by kevin_s2f; 2008-06-27 at 18:57. Reason: fixed title

  12. #12
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    Re: WiFi / WLAN Settings on Nokia Devices

    Well,
    The fastest thing to improve WLAN quality in various applications is to disable wlan power saving mode. It will consume a bit more battery, but the overall experience is much better. This applies also to VoIP calls, not just JoikuSpot.

    The setting is pretty much hide in the phone, but you can find it under Tools -> Settings -> Connection -> Wireless LAN.

    Click “Options” and “Advanced Settings”. You will be prompted “Changing advanced settings is not recommended. Continue anyway?”. Click Yes.

    Make sure that “Automatic configuration” is set to “Disabled” and “Power saving” is also set to “Disabled”.

  13. #13
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    Re: Talk to the Guru: Lasse Mäki, CEO JoikuSoft

    There are three features I've wanted added to my E61 ever since I first laid hands on it but there does not seem to be any movement toward having them implemented. They are:
    1. EAP PAP WPA WiFi authentication,
    2. A way that normal humans can configure VPN and
    3. A way to share the phone's WiFi connection with a PC (a sort of reverse JoikuSpot).
    Would you like to comment on the possibility of adding any of these capabilities in future software developments?

  14. #14
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    Re: Talk to the Guru: Lasse Mäki, CEO JoikuSoft

    Hi,

    The first question is easy to answer, but currently impossible to implement. Current Symbian platform and Nokia phone WLAN drivers do not allow the phone to act in WLAN infrastructure mode. This again prevents also the usage WPA/WPA2 encryption. WPA namely requires that the WLAN AP (in this case the phone) is in WLAN infrastructure mode. We have been studying this a lot, but the implementation would require new WLAN drivers to phone... Pretty much requires full access to very low level Nokia APIs.

    For VPN I have very good news: Premium supports that fully. I have tested Cisco VPN software and also the VPN software provided by Windows. Both worked 100%. Premium will be out shortly, we just got the core engine through Symbian deep signing yesterday.

    Number 3: I'm not sure what you mean. A PC working as WLAN ap?
    That's at least simple: Just buy Zyxel 220 USB dongle with 30 euros... It has SoftAP function inside
    http://www.zyxel.com/web/product_fam...6-42EAEFD1F559

    For Mac or Linux just use Fon Spot...
    http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/download/fonspot




    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    There are three features I've wanted added to my E61 ever since I first laid hands on it but there does not seem to be any movement toward having them implemented. They are:
    1. EAP PAP WPA WiFi authentication,
    2. A way that normal humans can configure VPN and
    3. A way to share the phone's WiFi connection with a PC (a sort of reverse JoikuSpot).
    Would you like to comment on the possibility of adding any of these capabilities in future software developments?

  15. #15
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    Re: Talk to the Guru: Lasse Mäki, CEO JoikuSoft

    Quote Originally Posted by joikusoft View Post
    ... Current Symbian platform and Nokia phone WLAN drivers do not allow the phone to act in WLAN infrastructure mode. ...
    Could you please clarify what do you mean by that?
    For an example, I am using Nokia N81 (it is the Symbian platform) in the infrastructure mode at least from two applications on the phone: Nokia's embedded Web browser and SymSMB 3.50 from Telexy for wireless file access and sharing between phone and computers. In both cases I am using Wi-Fi access point on the phone that is configured in the infrastructure mode.
    I am using these both applications on daily basis at least in two Wi-Fi locations - home and work. There are infrastructure WLAN in both these locations.
    Many times I was using these applications in the various Wi-Fi Hot-Spots around town and again, everywhere WLAN in infrastructure mode was in use.
    I did try Wi-Fi ad-hoc for both these applications, it works too, but then I returned back to the infrastructure mode again and this mode is the default mode for Nokia's Wi-Fi access point. Moreover, the Telexy Networks Inc. (www.telexy.com), the developer of SymSMB is recommending to use their SymSMB application on Symbian/Nokia phones in the infrastructure mode too as more convenient to configure and use. From my experience so far, I can not see any problem with using WLAN infrastructure mode on Nokia N81 phone, that is why I just don't understand your point above. Am I missing something?
    Last edited by Larry7; 2008-07-02 at 10:09.

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