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  1. #1
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    Mar 2003
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    4

    midi files causing 3510 to crash - help!

    I'm having some tricky problems with uploading (via data cable) midi/sp-midi ringtones to a 3510 and wondered if any one else has experienced the same, and whether they resolved it...

    Being a reasonably tech savvy musician type I am familiar with midi, formats, software etc

    Certain midi files seem to cause the phone to crash :
    1) The files upload ok but when auditioned the tone does not play (and there is no usual click of the audio initialising) - this then causes the audio to hang on a continuous tone (like the way midi sequencers can, until you send a reset/note off message) - The phone must then be turned off and on and the offending ringtone deleted.
    2) Once uploaded, trying to select the ringtone actually causes the phone to switch off and reboot - then becoming unstable. Again the phone must then be turned off and on and the offending ringtone deleted. However, I think I may have resolved the reboot issue by shortening the filename - Not thoroughly tested this though as problem 1 still remains.

    I have systematically chopped and changed the midi file content with copious permutations: modified/deleted tracks, instruments, sp-midi sysx, file sizes, software etc etc, but to no avail - I've successfully composed and uploaded various other files but certain ones just refuse work...

    Anybody any ideas....please!?

    Thanks,
    Paul

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    7

    RE: midi files causing 3510 to crash - help!

    Hi Paul,

    I think the following may answer both your questions

    A. 1
    Every patch required for the ringtone is loaded as a sample into every phone. Some samples are bigger in size than others, and it seems that the four voice phones are limited in memory space.

    Particular problem patches include String ensemble 1 or 2, Trumpet, Guitar and the lead synth voice - string ensemble is the most common problem. I'm hoping to get hold of a specific spec sheet which gives all the information about the sample banks used by the phones with specific patch sizes, but there is no sign of it yet. In the tech music area Nokia tend to keep quiet and cautious, which is not much use if you're trying to figure out what's going on with their phones as a MIDI composer.

    The most annoying thing about this specific problem, is that if you have a mip message to hide several tracks from the four voice phone, the four voice still loads the sample data for those tracks. This seems to be where the problems start occurring, because I think Nokia have left enough headroom to put together a four voice tone using any of those 'problem samples', but neglected to foresee that the point of sp-midi is that it will be using the same files on phones that can play up to 24 voices or more.

    So if you put together a really good sounding tone for the 7650, you have to be careful how many different patch groups are being used when that same tone is loaded into a four voice phone, even though the four voice phone doesn't touch those extra patches directly. The file is actually loaded into the phone in the same way as an RMF file - which bundles sample data and midi data together, the sample bank coming from the phone's internal data. The 3510 will load those patches before it looks at the mip message, and so you're stuck.

    Nokia should have either increased the overall memory size in the lower spec phones, or to have included a way of split patching the file - most logically through the mip message.

    You have to work around it, and sometimes make a few compromises.

    I hear also that Beatnik are working on a better memory management system for mobile phones, and no doubt it will address problems like this.

    A. 2
    Re crashing the 3510 - yes the file name needs to be no more than 40 characters long, otherwise it will really upset the phone. The 7210 seems to be better able to handle the long filenames, though of course, you only have a display of a few characters when selecting tones, so it's always good to keep the filenames short.

    I hope this helps!

    Kevin
    kevin@classicringtones.com

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    4

    RE: midi files causing 3510 to crash - help!

    Hi Tamara,

    I think I have resolved some of the problems thanks to further research and the post from Kevin. However in response to your questions:

    Through cable - Not tested WAP yet. Are there any obvious WAP/MIDI issues I should be aware of?

    Not tried inserting a GM reset - I'll look into that also as I have heard it may be wise to reset reverb controllers etc - Any further info on this would be appreciated.

    And, no there are no other sysex messages.

    Thanks for your help on this.

    Best Regards,
    Paul

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