×

Discussion Board

Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 84
  1. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    16

    Re: Express Signed

    Quote Originally Posted by ltomuta View Post
    Excellent steps have been taken in this direction but there is still room for improvement.
    I agree.

    Michael

  2. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    2,280

    Re: Express Signed

    Hi Lucian,

    It seems I completely misread your meaning again! Sorry.

    Express Signed (or Open Signed Online for that matter) is definitely not a sensible solution for freeware and we should be encouraging hobbyist developers to produce freeware - it seems we are agreed on these fundamental issues.

    Previously I've been offered the possibility of a Symbian sponsored Publisher ID and free Express Signing events if I use them to sign freeware and open source software following the rules. I refused this because I very much don't want to prop up a defective system via some kind of unofficial channel relying on my own time and effort.

    I also agree with this:
    But then again, things are not as bad as they might seem from the narrow view of Forum Nokia's discussion boards. Look at you as an example, you have a great app out and only 10 or so posts on this DiBo, sign that we're not seeing a lot of the good developers out there and we don't know their stories/problems ...
    This is true but that's because:
    a) MOST applications can be developed with only the user-grantable capabilities.
    b) There has been NO good widely accessible distribution channel for Symbian apps so far.

    I know some people's view is that any "interesting" application will need some extra capabilities but I think that's just because it's true for THEIR application idea. However, there's also the strong case that we shouldn't exclude freeware from using additional capabilities as we effectively do at the moment.

    Now we have an Ovi Store launching, naturally freeware developers are going to want to distribute their applications on it and that requires a solution. Also, if freeware (or anyone without a Publisher ID) wants to use restricted capabilities then the development and debugging process, plus the desire to ship regular updates to beta-testers, requires another (probably different) solution. DevCerts used to be the answer to part of the second issue but they were withdrawn (actually just restricted to those with Publisher IDs and renamed "Open Signed Offline") due to piracy issues (personally I think it's down to commercial vendors to protect their own apps, without relying on the application signing system to do it for them).

    The challenge is to come up with a way to allow wide distribution of applications and for developers to sign their own applications for testing, without opening the system to excessive abuse. Personally I'd do away with the Publisher ID entirely and use simple account authorisation on Symbian Signed via a credit/debit card (apologies to the under 18s but I'm sure their parents would create an account for them). It may be easy to create a new email address but it isn't so easy to create a new payment card with a new name and address!

    I don't think many freeware developers would have a problem with a one-off small payment to create an account if everything was free after that?

    Mark

  3. #18
    Regular Contributor
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Budapest, Hungary
    Posts
    84

    Re: Express Signed

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcery-ltd View Post
    I don't think many freeware developers would have a problem with a one-off small payment to create an account if everything was free after that?
    It worked for Apple and Google.

  4. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Beijing, China
    Posts
    386

    Re: Express Signed

    Quote Originally Posted by Head of Ovi Publish View Post
    For Applications,
    and for content? Do they have to be in sis files to be sold on Ovi, or can they be plain files with a MIME type that can be launched from the phone's browser (assuming a player is installed).

    Max.

  5. #20
    Nokia Developer Expert
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    121

    Re: Express Signed

    Quote Originally Posted by biskero View Post
    Ciao

    is express sign allowed for Flash Lite content?
    Alessandro
    Hi Alessandro,

    Flash Lite apps for supported S60 devices have the same signing requirements as Symbian apps. The specifics are listed in the post by Head of Ovi Publish and are covered in the Ovi Publish Guide. Flash Lite apps for supported Series 40 devices will need to be packaged as .NFL files.
    [B]Bill Perry[/B]
    Sr. Services Marketing Manager, Forum Nokia
    Publishing to Ovi Store: [url]http://publish.ovi.com/[/url]
    twitter: [url]www.twitter.com/bperry[/url]
    blog: [url]www.mobileperry.com[/url]

  6. #21
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Porto, Portugal
    Posts
    24

    Re: Express Signed

    Quote Originally Posted by ltomuta View Post
    Ok, let's clarify the things a bit: freeware means an application given away for free and not an application which was developed for free.

    To begin with you invest your time and knowledge in it and that "costs" money. Then, in order to certify your application you need a Published ID and that a) costs money and b) can only be obtained by companies.

    Now, assuming that you solve the Published ID problem (either get one or find a company to "sponsor" you and sign the app in its name) you have two certification paths: express signed and certified signed. Which one to chose it is a matter of a) cost, b) capabilities and c) time spent in testing stage.

    By no means the Express Signed is the freeware solution. It might be cheaper but is not free, it might be more flexible but breaking the rules when using it brings penalty.

    Furthermore, even if Express Signed is accepted by the Ovi Store you might not be able to use it (capabilities) or you might choose not to use it (i.e. the sponsor might not trust you enough and would prefer to spend the testing money to ensure that your app is of good quality).

    So, take the free out of the equation as it is irrelevant, the certification requirements and testing criteria are the same for all apps. The only way your app can be free is if you do not care about the costs or if your app is sponsored/ad-supported.

    An overview of signing options with costs and limitations can be found at http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/lu...symbian-signed

    I agree with you, and Nokia has created MOSH for those purposes I guess.. Isn't it?!


    http://Nokia-Blog.net
    Best,
    Albert de Castro

    MaisonChaplin.blogspot.com

  7. #22
    Super Contributor
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Cheshire, UK
    Posts
    7,395

    Re: Express Signed

    Hi Mark,

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcery-ltd View Post
    I'd argue that Lucian's comment: [...] should either be regarded as incorrect or just incredibly pedantic. You have to declare that you've passed the testing criteria to use Express Signed, what's missing is independent testing and that wasn't listed as a requirement for Ovi.
    An extension of that logic would appear to be that Java applications would not need to go through the Java Verified process, if I simply declare compliance with the requirements, and sign with another trusted third-party certificate (Thawte/Verisign).

    I find it unlikely that this form of self-certification would be acceptable. I certainly hope not.

    Cheers,
    Graham.

  8. #23
    Super Contributor
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    2,020

    Opinions, Fear Uncertainty and Doubt

    Hello folks,
    I just wantzed to use this as an opportunity to vent a bit about Nokias totally useless and annoying (from my point of view) restriction on only companies being allowed to develop S60 apps (as you can't get a publisher ID otherwise).

    Even the folks at Apple manage to let individuals into their store, and do so for 100$...while we pay 200$ to the folks at TrustCenter who then demand all kinds of web browser management crap in order to get a certificate.

    OK, I might be able to get in using the UID of the ad agency of my wife...but personally feel VERY VERY annoyed by this crap. If LocaNote Lite werent ready, I would be more than willing to stop development for S60 now for good.

    I mean, WTF? Who do the folks behind this think that they are?

    All the best
    Tam Hanna
    The lines above are the best I have to offer.If anyone of you is of more advanced knowledge, I ask for your patience and understanding! - unknown arab poet
    http://www.tamoggemon.com - Symbian blog - Windows Phone blog
    My other blogs:
    webOS blog iPhone blog BlackBerry blog Samsung bada blog Android blog

  9. #24
    Super Contributor
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    2,020

    Re: Individual developers + Ovi

    P.S. Any developer wanting to join in in a press release from my company shedding some lioght onto this? I guess that sufficient media attention could get these policies changed VERY fast!
    The lines above are the best I have to offer.If anyone of you is of more advanced knowledge, I ask for your patience and understanding! - unknown arab poet
    http://www.tamoggemon.com - Symbian blog - Windows Phone blog
    My other blogs:
    webOS blog iPhone blog BlackBerry blog Samsung bada blog Android blog

  10. #25
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    9

    Re: Individual developers + Ovi

    I made a similar post called "Cost of publishing to OVI".

    One of the argument I saw against developing for iPhone is that you have to buy a MAC and that cost $. But I think this is not an issue. We are comparing the publishing services not hardware. Apple does the signing, approval, etc... for $99; for life I believe. Nokia: $200/yr + $20 per submission.

    Don't forget the $20 for EACH submission ($20 for trial software, $20 full software). And now there's Jave Verified as well.

    I guess the pricing does go against individual developers.

    Am I missing any other costs? Why can't Nokia issues the certificate as well?

  11. #26
    Regular Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Beijing, China
    Posts
    54

    Thumbs down Re: Express Signed

    Quote Originally Posted by eartle View Post
    Hello,

    For some reason I accidentally read

    Express signing of Symbian applications does meet this criteria.

    as

    Express signing of Symbian applications does NOT meet this criteria.

    This mistake sort of changes the meaning a bit, but the freeware debate is still valid and I have found it very interesting.

    I also didn't realise that you need a publisher id for express signed. As this is $200 a year plus $20 each time you want to release an update, it looks very unlikely that Mobbler will be signed, be on the ovi app store, or get those nice extra features we'd planned on doing one day.

    I will try to speak to David Wood and/or Antony Edwards about this though as I think it is rather important to encourage easy freeware app development, not only for signing and distribution, but for everything that is needed during development, such as on-target debugging etc etc.

    Michael
    I really have to jump in here in this discussion because I feel quite strong about it. I was all excited to publish my anina dress up in the ovi store, and then find out that the point of entry is 400$. 200$ for the publisher id, then another 200$ for a pack of ten credits. This compared the the 99$ point of entry for iphone is one of the reasons why iphone is exploding. why would nokia make a point of entry so high? PLUS now added for my flash lite application i have to PACK IT AS A SWF...that will cost MORE...the point of developing in fashion lite is that it's low cost, and with the forward lock of nokia it should be fine to put a swf in ... but no they make yet another barrior of entry?

    why are they doing this? it's really bad for business...it's hurting their reputation, stumping creativity, and certainly making me reconsider if i will put my app in the ovi store...it's a shame...i'm sure there's not going to be a lot of female content in the ovi store.

  12. #27
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Porto, Portugal
    Posts
    24

    Re: Express Signed

    I totally agree with you, I had a lot of themes and screensavers to upload on publish to ovi but I have given up, it's ridiculous the ammount we have to pay for this.
    I'm out.
    Best,
    Albert de Castro

    MaisonChaplin.blogspot.com

  13. #28
    Regular Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Beijing, China
    Posts
    54

    Thumbs down Re: Express Signed

    In order to break even after the $400 pre-investment, I have to sell 600 copies of my app at .99 cents an app to break even. Do you think there will be 600 customers for my anina dress up application? and that's just to break even...not even make any money. they really should have fixed this problem for the ovi store.

  14. #29
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Porto, Portugal
    Posts
    24

    Re: Express Signed

    Exactly, that's what I thought. Specially now that the store is in its begging. I don't know how they will surpass iPhone this way.
    Best,
    Albert de Castro

    MaisonChaplin.blogspot.com

  15. #30
    (Retired) Nokia Developer Admin.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    4,664

    Opinions or Questions on Costs

    Please use this thread to comment on the costs of publishing to Ovi. The messages are being scattered and disruptive. There is currently a Java Verified thread as well.

    Lets make this useful feedback not Fear Uncertainty and Doubt.

    Ron

Similar Threads

  1. Re: Questions or Opinions for the Symbian Tools Team
    By Nokiagoldfreak in forum News and Announcements
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 2006-11-20, 21:04
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 2006-11-10, 18:33
  3. Ask Questions or Give Opinions to the Symbian Tools Team
    By Nokia Ron in forum Carbide.c++ IDE and plug-ins (Closed)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 2006-11-10, 18:32
  4. Ask Questions or Give Opinions to the Symbian Tools Team
    By Nokia Ron in forum Symbian Tools & SDKs
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 2006-11-10, 18:31

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
×