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  1. #1
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    Lack of Symbian knowledge amongst QA staff

    Hi,
    I've had an application fail to pass QA because I implemented a well known and published solution to a Symbian installer bug.

    The reason for failure was
    "Summary: If the user installs the item, then the user notices an error message “component Symbian OS PIPS’ missing. Continue anyway?” "

    This Symbian OS PIPS library cannot be packaged with the application because of a bug in the Symbian installer. Please refer to this link...

    http://www3.symbian.com/faq.nsf/0/8D...E?OpenDocument

    The solution as outlined by Symbian is the very reason I failed QA. Can anyone help?
    Thanks,
    Spol

  2. #2
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    Re: Lack of Symbian knowledge amongst QA staff

    Can some-one please help me with this?

  3. #3
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    Re: Lack of Symbian knowledge amongst QA staff

    Quote Originally Posted by spol View Post
    Hi,
    I've had an application fail to pass QA because I implemented a well known and published solution to a Symbian installer bug.

    The reason for failure was
    "Summary: If the user installs the item, then the user notices an error message “component Symbian OS PIPS’ missing. Continue anyway?” "

    This Symbian OS PIPS library cannot be packaged with the application because of a bug in the Symbian installer. Please refer to this link...

    http://www3.symbian.com/faq.nsf/0/8D...E?OpenDocument

    The solution as outlined by Symbian is the very reason I failed QA. Can anyone help?
    Thanks,
    Spol
    Hi,
    Cant help with your problem, except to agree. One of the annoying parts of Nokia is that there are people who refuse to use their own resources. In your problem the QA people should have checked there own "Knowledge base article" can be seen on the FN Wiki KIS000457 - The dependency option is not supported with embedded SIS packages, and identified known problem.

    This happened on the famous n-gage saga where people developing the N-Gage client just did not read the "Knowledge base articles" on N95 firmware revisions and your problem above can be seen on the FN Wiki.


    Jim Gilmour
    FN Wiki Adminstrator, (unpaid)
    Last edited by jimgilmour1; 2009-06-03 at 14:30.

  4. #4
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    Re: Lack of Symbian knowledge amongst QA staff

    Thanks Jim,

    Is there anyway of getting through to the QA team? I've sent several emails to Ovi Support but I've heard nothing back. I feel like we’re banging our heads against a wall.

    We've put in a huge effort to create our application. We’ve made many personal sacrifices and invested a very sizable sum of cash but now we're left in limbo because of a weakness in the Ovi QA. To make matters worse we're left without anyway of contacting QA.

    I know and understand the guys in Ovi are under pressure and everything is not going smoothly. But this is a simple fix; some-one needs to take ownership… or at the very least acknowledge our emails.

  5. #5
    (Retired) Nokia Developer Admin.
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    Re: Lack of Symbian knowledge amongst QA staff

    I'll make sure they see this post

    Ron

  6. #6
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    Re: Lack of Symbian knowledge amongst QA staff

    Thanks Ron.

  7. #7
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    Re: Lack of Symbian knowledge amongst QA staff

    Spol -- could I get you to forward the QA failure notice e-mail you recieved along with your comments detailing what they're not understanding to: PublishToOvi.support@nokia.com?

    I'll ensure it's handed off to the QA team and try to get your application through as soon as possible.

    Ryan

  8. #8
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    Re: Lack of Symbian knowledge amongst QA staff

    OMG, a different QA guy failed my app again for the same reason. What is happening to Nokia...? my head hurts. Can some-one help... please!

  9. #9
    (Retired) Nokia Developer Admin.
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    Re: Lack of Symbian knowledge amongst QA staff

    Quote Originally Posted by spol View Post
    OMG, a different QA guy failed my app again for the same reason. What is happening to Nokia...? my head hurts. Can some-one help... please!

    I'll help you with this off line. But yes your basic answer is that these are not application developer's but they should have consulted them when you appealed.

    Ron

  10. #10
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    Re: Lack of Symbian knowledge amongst QA staff

    Well, not only they do not have Symbian knowledge, which in my opinion is not a must, but they should:

    1) pay more attention to application documentation
    2) when failing an application to give a detailed explanation of the reason


    Just to give you an example, we are trying to submit a client/server application for more than one month. The first time the application failed because of: "Support documentation doesn't provide a server password". For us developers must be obvious when installing a server that we must choose OUR OWN password, and not to mention the documentation clearly states that...

    Anyway, after I have replied to this issue the next time (20 days later) the application failed for the reason: "Failed Case 1: Download/Install/Launch/Delete Summary: If the user tries to install the content, then the user notices a warning message as “Not Supported”. Requirement: Download, install, and run the content."

    My thoughts were, are you kidding?!

    1) Haven't you installed the same file at the first test? has it worked at that time?
    If it has not, why didn't you report it. If it has, why are you failing now?

    2) What phone (firmware) are you testing? After all you are a QA department you need to give us all the details.

    And not to mention that we tested the file with SUCCESS on ALL our test phones plus several test phones from RDA.

    9 days has passed since last incident and we have NO REPLY!

    Guys, I do not say it is your fault, as I mentioned the applications must be used by anyone, it is for general public not for computer geeks only, but at least when you have some "foolish" errors, like: "I do not find the password" or " Not supported", please spend a couple of days with the developer, maybe there is a simple solution to the problem. Do not throw away the application at the end of the testing queue and go back after 20 days to find again another foolish reason to reject it.

    Laurentiu Taropa
    Intellsys
    Last edited by intellsys; 2009-06-15 at 08:46. Reason: better english

  11. #11
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    Re: Lack of Symbian knowledge amongst QA staff

    Hi Ron,
    I've sent you an email and PM.
    Thanks for your help.
    Spol

  12. #12
    Nokia Developer Moderator
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    Re: Lack of Symbian knowledge amongst QA staff

    After working with Spol in clarifying this issue I would like to make the following brief comments:
    • As an end-user I am not aware (or I don't care) of any known issues and limitations, all I want is to pay for the app in one key press, download it and install it with one more key press and finally launch it on the device
    • As an end-user I hold the store responsible for any problem I see with the application (this is why whatever QA says is law*)
    • As a developer I see myself responsible for ensuring that user's experience with the shop and with my application matches the above expectation


    The best practice rules that should arise from this:
    • make sure that any dependencies of your applications are made available to the user with your install package - don't assume that the user has N-Gage and thus it has the OpenC libraries or the XML Data Bindings library -> embed runtimes and 3rd party libraries with your application
    • optimally, you could also ensure that your application detects missing libraries at run time (e.g. if they are uninstalled) and either installs them from a local/remote repository or prompts the user to re-install the application.
    • should there be the case (most likely not) that you have to force a bit the Symbian Signed testing criteria (or need a waiver) in order to ensure best UEX at install time then my advice is to do so** I expect that in most cases Symbian Signed's rules are in sync with Ovi Store's expected user experience, if they seem not to be I would read them again ...


    * Any law should be expected to be followed only if consistent, published clearly and explained. Having a warning message displayed is not a reason to fail a test. Having the user confused by that warning and the real risk that the application will not work if a dependency is missing that is indeed a reason to give an app the boot.

    ** That's my advice, you have to judge for yourself.
    -- Lucian

    If you are not yet a DVLUP member it is time to correct that mistake :) Click here to join: http://www.dvlup.com/lucian/Invite

  13. #13
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    Re: Lack of Symbian knowledge amongst QA staff

    Want to bring this topic up again. recently our application failed QA due to the following:

    ISSUE #3 Failed languages cannot be set inside the application.
    * Language: Russian The file was expected to be country/operator neutral but QA found out it was not.

    Ovi Support Team reply:
    For the first issue that is failing is it's supported of multiple languages. In the installation process, it prompts the user to select a language. So QA tried select french. After installation is completed, the application is displayed in English. There is no option inside the application for the user to change language. Please ask the publisher to remove the selection of language if it's not working.

    Yes, our application supports multiple languages Russian, English, German, Italian. All resource files are package in the SIS file the standard Symbian way. Obviously if the phone's language is set to Spanish (and we do not support it) when installing user will be prompted to select the language (so user selects Italian for example). However, if you start application it will show up in English (because phone is in Spanish and we do not support it!!). But if you switch the phone to Italian, application will show up in Italian!
    Looks like QA is not happy with it, but that how it was since day one of Symbian. Your thoughts are welcome.

  14. #14
    Nokia Developer Moderator
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    Re: Lack of Symbian knowledge amongst QA staff

    How about making sure that regardless of the selected language the files are copied to the phone as standard resources (e.g. *.rsc instead or .r01, .r03 ... ) ?
    -- Lucian

    If you are not yet a DVLUP member it is time to correct that mistake :) Click here to join: http://www.dvlup.com/lucian/Invite

  15. #15
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    Re: Lack of Symbian knowledge amongst QA staff

    Hi Lucian,
    Thanks again for all your help and work with the old problem.
    Just to clarify, when providing multi-language support for applications in the Ovi store, is it now a requirement that the application supports changing the language at run-time?
    Spol

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