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  1. #1
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    order by popularity

    Hey,
    can you please explain if by choosing order by most popular do you mean most downloaded apps or best rated apps?
    if the answer is most downloaded then it would be extreamly hard for new apps to get into the first page
    since the apps there get downloaded more just for being in the first page of most popular and its like a vicious cycle that wont end. (dont you think so?)

    Thanks
    Shai

  2. #2
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    Re: order by popularity

    Hi

    The relevancy of content in the Ovi Store (how order of content is displayed to users) depends on many factors - what is popular, what is new, what was browsed, what was purchased in the past, etc. The home page and other landing pages are influenced by a combination of these.

    Thank you

  3. #3
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    Re: order by popularity

    OviStewey:
    but thats exactly what im asking...
    what is urs (nokia) definition of popular
    im talking about just order by popular critirea not "suggest to me" or anything else
    is the order by popular goes according to how much downloads the item have or its star ratings?
    my guess is that it goes by how much downloads and i dont think it should be like that...
    cause i see a very nasty (allthough legal behaviour from some companys such as offscreen) who put out their content for free in order to get lots of download and have their content on the front page and then convert it to paid content and thus getting that top spot and users mostly download content that is at the top 1-3 pages.
    if it must be based on downloads then i think the downloads number should be reset when switching content from free to paid.

  4. #4
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    Re: order by popularity

    The ordering of applications is a big problem for Ovi Store. And the bigger problem is that they do not want to discuss these problems with us, the developers. So you will not get a clear answer for this question.

    I have monitored the indexing since the very first day when Ovi Store was launched and I can tell several things:

    1. There is only a slight correlation between application popularity and the most popular index. My guess is that they interlace a real most popular index with "fake popular" applications.

    2. Some companies are favored and there is a high degree of subjectivity when indexing applications in both lists.

    3. Applications move (change their position) in packs. If you look at your application neighbors they will remain the same for very long time. This can be a natural result for a most popular index, but the way the "pack" is moving suggests human intervention.

    4. The number of downloads and the number of sales is directly correlated with the position in the lists.

    5. The price, the quality of application, the description, the keywords, the icons and so on, have no measurable effect in changing your indexing. "Fine tuning" of your application is not possible.

    Again, these are just my personal observations. And why it is so bad? First of all we have no predictability in terms of number of downloads and number of purchases. (For example one of our applications has changed its downloading rate ten times "over the night", after an upgrade). We can not build any kind of business plan based on Ovi Store results.

    The second major problem is that we do not even get reliable feedback. If some application does well and has high indexing position it does not necessarily mean it is well appreciated by customers and vice versa. The most important factor on your success on Ovi Store is what the marketing team (Nokia employees) think about your products, not the public.

    Well, we also have suggestions and we are ready to discuss these issues, but it looks like nobody is interested. This is what I think it should be done, in few words:

    1) Each and every application to get an EQUAL "share of popularity" by rotating them (on different phone models) in the "Suggested for me" list.

    2) Rename "Most popular" to "Editor's choice" and list whatever they like to market there.

    3) Based only on downloads originated from "Suggested for me" (applications that have equal visibility) build a real most popular index and distribute this index to developers (not to public), under NDA agreement, such that we can plan our development efforts accordingly.

    But no matter what we suggest on this forum and no matter what we write to PublishToOvi.Support@nokia.com it seems that it goes no far than the Publisher Support team. This team does a tremendous and difficult job (that I must appreciate), but the problem exceeds their horizon. This is not a problem for customer support, this is a problem for Nokia top management, the ones that make and decide the company strategy on long term.

    And to conclude this long post, my personal opinion is that Ovi Store is a worse "unsuccess" than the Nokia management believes at this moment. In seven moths they succeeded to undermine seven years of enthusiasm, dedication, loyalty, and commitment on developing software for Nokia phones. Ovi Store has started as a pathetic attempt from Nokia to regain the "minds share" lost in favor of Apple fans and instead they managed to loose the minds of their own loyal developers.

    Best regards,
    Laurentiu Taropa

    CEO Intellsys s.r.l.

  5. #5
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    Re: order by popularity

    It seems only the first 16 items are sorted according to the 'popularity', after that we have apps listed according to their content id's

    Here are my observations -
    http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/fo...d.php?t=189012

  6. #6
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    Re: order by popularity

    OviStewey? some1?
    how can u expect a business to raise its apps popularoity with out knowing on what the popularity is based on??

  7. #7
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    Re: order by popularity

    Quoting from "A Knight's Tale": "You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting."

    What makes you think someone wants you to raise your apps popularity on Ovi?

    Now, on a more serious tone, do not rely on Ovi Store to gain too much popularity. But if you succeed elsewhere, then they will give you all the attention you need and boost your popularity. This is a legitimate policy and under some circumstances it can make sense. Here Nokia acts like a beautiful rich princes who is too afraid to marry a handsome, but poor suitor. No need to say anymore that I disagree with this policy and if I remember well the movie, neither does the screenwriter . But unfortunately Ovi Store is not a fairytale.

    Cheers,
    Lau

  8. #8
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    Re: order by popularity

    Quote Originally Posted by intellsys View Post
    Quoting from "A Knight's Tale": "You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting."
    Actually that is from the Bible book of Daniel Your days are numbered, you have been weighed and found wanting. I loved the movie and I bet the Knights were the Rock Stars of their generation.

    Ron

  9. #9
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    Wink Re: order by popularity

    Quote Originally Posted by Nokia Ron View Post
    Actually that is from the Bible book of Daniel Your days are numbered, you have been weighed and found wanting. I loved the movie and I bet the Knights were the Rock Stars of their generation.

    Ron
    Yes surely, and given the time it's taking to get a response on this, perhaps a quote from our Knight's Tale's bare-bummed slacker, Chaucer, might be quite apposite - “Time and tide wait for no man.” Chaucer was never the same for me after that movie - he was always some grey dead dude from 800 years ago - but no longer...oh well, here's waiting...please?
    Andy Storer
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  10. #10
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    Re: order by popularity

    Nokia Ron: Yes i loved that movie also but...... dont you think a better response would be more to the topic at hand? how is the most popular calculated?
    intellsys: im not looking for ovi to help increase my apps popularity i want to raise my own apps popularity myself but if i dont know on what basis the popularity is calculated well then... i have no chance of doing that would i?

  11. #11
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    Re: order by popularity

    Quote Originally Posted by shaii View Post
    Nokia Ron: Yes i loved that movie also but...... dont you think a better response would be more to the topic at hand? how is the most popular calculated?
    intellsys: im not looking for ovi to help increase my apps popularity i want to raise my own apps popularity myself but if i dont know on what basis the popularity is calculated well then... i have no chance of doing that would i?
    Exactly the point.

    Ron

  12. #12
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    Re: order by popularity

    what??? can you be clearer?
    your saying nokia doesnt want me to raise my app popularity?

  13. #13
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    Re: order by popularity

    Quote Originally Posted by shaii View Post
    what??? can you be clearer?
    your saying nokia doesnt want me to raise my app popularity?
    I'm saying they do not want you to do it artificially. If I was a customer and found that someone was skewing the results I would be upset.

    Ron

  14. #14
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    Re: order by popularity

    i dont want to do it artificially but i do want to know on what it bases on so if its d/ls then i can ad campain to get more ppl to download it. if its rating ill add a comment on desciption that if you liked the game please rate it and etc.
    and btw lets not get naive here
    A. nokia skew the results by themselfs (you can clearly see that when they put promoted items that are brand new which they want to get alot of downloads , usually its free items or items that won a contests of sorts)
    B. can you realy think of the marketing world with out knowing what the basis of how to raise your sells???
    C. btw in the last webinar (which was about the reporting system) it was said in the faq part i believe that there will be another webinar about marketing and etc on ovi store, so ... marketing is somthing that has to be precise to know if you succeed of fail and if we dont know that then all is pointless.

  15. #15
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    Re: order by popularity

    I'll talk with Bill Perry about another webinar. You have to have a time limit on the Most Popular to keep the list fresh. If you didn't then only the items first uploaded would be on the list as they would self-perpetuate.

    Ron

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