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  1. #1
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    Mar 2010
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    Series 60 experience

    I recently bought a Nokia (N79) for the first time, after having multiple WinMo and most recently a G1 Android phone. I'm not crazy about touch screens and wanted a phone that I could actually use as a phone without giving up wifi and gps. I was attracted by the better camera, too, even though I really wanted an N86 (which was out of my price range).

    The lack of software I can live with, the limited memory, the cramped wheel that continually hits the 2 button is annoying but not a deal breaker. The one thing that is making me crazy is trying to install software and getting told that either the certificate is out of date or invalid.

    I am reluctantly going back to my G1 and the Nokia will show up on eBay any day now unless I can find a way to actually use the phone I paid for. My G1 is rooted, I routinely have installed multiple custom roms on my WinMo phones but the one truly open source platform locks me out of installing simple stuff like the latest Python and simple utilities. I'm baffled and discouraged at this user experience. I'm a power user and not a developer - why should I have to recompile software so I can self-sign it? Why should I have to cruise the net trying to figure out what signing options are at all? This is beyond ridiculous.

    I purposefully went to a Nokia phone to get a quality phone with the options to write Python scripts. I wanted to start saving for a higher end phone - I suppose that's the saving grace, I don't want to upgrade to a nicer Nokia anymore.

    If there is a way to turn this "dumb" phone into the smartphone I imagined I was getting, that would be the best thing. I wanted to love this phone.

    Terry

  2. #2
    Nokia Developer Moderator
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    Re: Series 60 experience

    Quote Originally Posted by terryowen View Post
    ... I'm baffled and discouraged at this user experience. I'm a power user and not a developer - why should I have to recompile software so I can self-sign it? Why should I have to cruise the net trying to figure out what signing options are at all? This is beyond ridiculous. ...
    No, it is not beyond ridiculous. For the simple reason that you don't have to do so. Signing an application (or rather certifying it) is a part of the R&D process and thus it is something that only developers should be doing. End users will take ready signed applications and install them on their phones where they are guaranteed to work.

    You can find plenty of free and commercial apps in the Ovi Store (http://store.ovi.com) and they are all certified. Alternatively you can find self-signed applications which you can again install without problems if you download them from sources you trust. But if the application you have download is not signed (or the certificate is expired) the only expected action for you is to delete it, and look for an alternative app providing the same features in an user friendly package.

    That being said, this too is a site for 3rd party developers (i.e. those who are supposed to sign their apps before release) and not for end-users. If you want to discuss with other users and share your experience with a Symbian powered Nokia smartphone please use http://www.nokia.com/discussions
    -- Lucian

    If you are not yet a DVLUP member it is time to correct that mistake :) Click here to join: http://www.dvlup.com/lucian/Invite

  3. #3
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    Re: Series 60 experience

    Quote Originally Posted by ltomuta View Post
    No, it is not beyond ridiculous. For the simple reason that you don't have to do so. Signing an application (or rather certifying it) is a part of the R&D process and thus it is something that only developers should be doing. End users will take ready signed applications and install them on their phones where they are guaranteed to work.

    You can find plenty of free and commercial apps in the Ovi Store (http://store.ovi.com) and they are all certified. Alternatively you can find self-signed applications which you can again install without problems if you download them from sources you trust. But if the application you have download is not signed (or the certificate is expired) the only expected action for you is to delete it, and look for an alternative app providing the same features in an user friendly package.

    That being said, this too is a site for 3rd party developers (i.e. those who are supposed to sign their apps before release) and not for end-users. If you want to discuss with other users and share your experience with a Symbian powered Nokia smartphone please use http://www.nokia.com/discussions
    Well, the path is (loosely) platform feedback/s60 experience but this comment is directed at Nokia and 3rd party developers. The lack of consistency in downloaded applications - especially the signing thing - isn't a great advertisement for the platform.

    The Ovi store filters by device, so the actual application choice for this handset is pretty pitiful, which is why I went looking for freeware/shareware options. I had briefly thought of porting a personal Python app to Symbian but after this, I'm not very motivated. Why would anyone want to at this point?

    This really reminds me of Apple, beautiful hardware and tyrannical software. At least if I were to get an iPhone I'd have tons of software choices to console myself with. The Ovi store has practically nothing for me and the few things there are too expensive compared to either iPhone or Android apps. (Yes, I have purchased 30 or 40 Android apps, ranging from .99 to 5.99 US.) I had thought that Python would be the saving grace for the Nokia but I need to backtrack to 1.9.7 since the 2.0 signing problem.

    If this is your answer to someone who wants to like this phone/platform, who loves to evangelize about my phone of the moment, then I'm better off not bothering. HTC and Motorola both treat the power user community much better. Which is too bad because I really did want that N86...

    Terry

  4. #4
    Nokia Developer Moderator
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    Re: Series 60 experience

    You cannot enforce consistency in an open platform. Apple can do it easily. But on Symbian/S60 it does not matter if I say to a developer not to release unsigned applications, he/she will do it anyway. Avoiding those applications is an matter of end-user education, and we should probably do something about that.

    There's nothing wrong with per device filtering in Ovi, that is only one way of ensuring the consistency you want. If you chose to go outside that boundary and try applications which are not designed for your device, or applications which would be compatible but have been badly released, that is your problem and you should not complain about it.

    Python is a community driven project, supported by Nokia. 1.9.7 is AFAIK quite OK, you should be able to develop useful things with it. I don't know what the problem is with their 2.0 release.

    I think Nokia supports its [power] users quire OK, but if you do not agree with that feedback is welcomed at http://www.nokia.com/discussions

    If you define yourself as a developer, then we do welcome your feedback about any aspects of the development process. And those which are active here
    know that we are listening and that we are improving our offering. We know that signing is a problem for independent developers but we also know that many applications can be developed without a need for special capabilities and therefore for certification. If you know what you are doing, and you know that you need more than Symbian can currently allow you to do, then yes, you will have to chose another platform. We would like to know though which concrete use case was not possible for you to implement.
    -- Lucian

    If you are not yet a DVLUP member it is time to correct that mistake :) Click here to join: http://www.dvlup.com/lucian/Invite

  5. #5
    Super Contributor
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    Re: Series 60 experience

    Quote Originally Posted by ltomuta View Post
    You can find plenty of free and commercial apps in the Ovi Store (http://store.ovi.com) and they are all certified. Alternatively you can find self-signed applications which you can again install without problems if you download them from sources you trust. But if the application you have download is not signed (or the certificate is expired) the only expected action for you is to delete it, and look for an alternative app providing the same features in an user friendly package.
    Wrong. Just set the clock back!
    The lines above are the best I have to offer.If anyone of you is of more advanced knowledge, I ask for your patience and understanding! - unknown arab poet
    http://www.tamoggemon.com - Symbian blog - Windows Phone blog
    My other blogs:
    webOS blog iPhone blog BlackBerry blog Samsung bada blog Android blog

  6. #6
    Nokia Developer Moderator
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    Re: Series 60 experience

    Quote Originally Posted by tamhanna View Post
    Wrong. Just set the clock back!
    Well, that's wrong. I stick to my advice on deleting the thing and finding a up-to-date version on developer's web site.
    -- Lucian

    If you are not yet a DVLUP member it is time to correct that mistake :) Click here to join: http://www.dvlup.com/lucian/Invite

  7. #7
    Super Contributor
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    Re: Series 60 experience

    Quote Originally Posted by ltomuta View Post
    Well, that's wrong. I stick to my advice on deleting the thing and finding a up-to-date version on developer's web site.
    Hi,
    and what is if the developer is no more?

    Tam
    The lines above are the best I have to offer.If anyone of you is of more advanced knowledge, I ask for your patience and understanding! - unknown arab poet
    http://www.tamoggemon.com - Symbian blog - Windows Phone blog
    My other blogs:
    webOS blog iPhone blog BlackBerry blog Samsung bada blog Android blog

  8. #8
    Nokia Developer Moderator
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    Tampere, Finland
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    Re: Series 60 experience

    Since only application's developer can [re-]sign the application there is only one thing to do: delete the file and look for similar application elsewhere.
    -- Lucian

    If you are not yet a DVLUP member it is time to correct that mistake :) Click here to join: http://www.dvlup.com/lucian/Invite

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