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  1. #1
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    Re: Alert! Website exist that distributes your paid content for free!

    Due to a bug in forum software, my reply was shown as if it was posted before the original message. I have reposted my reply below.
    Last edited by ivanlitovski; 2011-12-07 at 00:12.

  2. #2
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    Alert! Website exist that distributes your paid content for free!

    Dear Developers,

    I am one of you and just published a paid full version of our game to the Nokia store around 1 week ago and while I did some google searching today to see if any reviews have been made about the game yet, I had to find some very disturbing news.

    As it turns out there are at least two websites from which you can download any paid game(full version) that exists on the Nokia Store for free, I am sure your game or app is on that website as well.

    I suggest that you contact the filehost severs to see if you can get those files removed and maybe even write to the person that own this website.

    However, the real and disturbing issue is how this file got into the hands of this person. I my case only Nokia has access to the full version of our game, but still this person is able to hold the cracked/signed version of the game.
    We applied DRM 1.0 to the game, the best protection Nokia provides us right now, but either that is completely useless or it could be that someone inside Nokia QA that has access to the signed version of all the games distributes them for free.

    I personally know a person that knows a person inside Nokia QA that gave him a couple of full version of games on the Nokia Store for free. So if that guy could do that I wouldn't be surprised at all if that is the case.

    Either way, no matter whose fault it is, we are all losing out here, both Nokia and the developers are losing precious revenue to these websites and many of us base our entire existence on these sales.

    Obviously something has to be done to stop this illegal distribution of our hard work!
    Personally, I doubt we can really legally achieve any success by suing the owners of those websites, since they will always find ways to get of the loop. It will probably be just a waste of money and time. Only Nokia herself could do something against those people.

    So in my opinion the only thing we can really do is to think about the future, how are we gonna stop this in the future. First, we probably need better encryption and protection for our Apps, maybe DRM 2.0 will provide us with the correct antidote, but first Nokia needs support it.

    In addition, Nokia really needs to crack down on their own QA team and built in some really tight security measures to stop any illegal distribution from inside.

    Personally, I am very disappointed and angry about this entire affair, since I was living in the believe that Nokia/Symbian had a very solid protection against piracy. And I just hope that Nokia already knows about this issue because these websites have been around for some time.
    In our case, I just had to google the name of our game and found these website under the first 5 hits, so it is very easy to find these websites.

    I think we got a real problem on our hands here and need to resolve it as soon as possible. I am sure you think so too.

    Best Regards!
    Last edited by Symbian_Neil; 2011-12-07 at 08:40. Reason: Edited links

  3. #3
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    Re: Alert! Website exist that distributes your paid content for free!

    This is an old story, "urgently escalated" to senior management about two years ago, but things just went from bad to worse over time. This is something many of us have learned to accept and live with. Nokia wouldn't lift a finger to help, and seems to have set up the game so its:

    1. Utterly impossible to do any sort of validation that the app was legally bought
    2. Trivially easy to rip off unprotected app (by using Symbian built-in DRM in permissive configuration)

    Also, if you go back to your T&C with Ovi, there is absolutely nothing you can legally do to compel them to set things in order. There is also that little clause that Nokia has right to distribute your app without limitations, and the other where we only get paid a parcentage of the money they actually receive for the app. So essentially, I'm being told, that we have consented to this when we signed up.

    I've found that publishing regular updates to my apps helps beat the pirates. All my apps have been ruthlessly pirated, and even claimed to be freeware. However, pirates are not very expedient and mostly peddle old versions with much less functionality.

    Perhaps you should go back to your post and remove the links. This way, you are just promoting the pirates.
    Last edited by ivanlitovski; 2011-12-06 at 23:08.

  4. #4
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    Re: Alert! Website exist that distributes your paid content for free!

    If you found it on the web before it went public in Nokia's store I think you have a case against Nokia, assuming you didn't give it to anyone else.

    But if it was live, that's just how the internet works. It's not news.

    As for Nokia's DRM, I never looked at it, I don't know how effective it is, but there's nothing that can't be cracked. Windows protections are much more elaborate, yet they also get cracked quickly and regularly. One thing going for mobile apps is that it seems less people spend time on cracking and spreading them. On the other hand, Java apps would be relatively trivial to crack.

  5. #5
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    Re: Alert! Website exist that distributes your paid content for free!

    Here is a long thread about the topic: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Commu...ore-and-DRM-FL
    Short version: this DRM solution stops from stealing only those who do not explicitly want to steal.

  6. #6
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    Re: Alert! Website exist that distributes your paid content for free!

    Thank you very much for your feedback,

    like it seems it is really hopeless to do anything to avoid this problem, I just hope that a majority of the users are not going down this path. So basically Symbian's IP protection is as bad as on Android.

    On that note, I heard Andriod apps in China get pirated by over 95% of the users. Is this the case for Nokia as well? Does anybody actually have any decent sales in China and is it worth the trouble to support it?

    Thanks

  7. #7
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    Re: Alert! Website exist that distributes your paid content for free!

    I think, if someone want to steal, than he can steal.

    The question here is "education", the only thing Nokia can do in China and other country's is a marketing campaign.

    Maybe:

    Is cool to have legal software (in some country's).

    Another campaign (In all country's) is the risk of installing software that is not purchase in the Nokia App. That is, if installing the ilegal software (from other sources) the users would void the guaranty of the device (is this last one [campaign] that makes Apple to be the most successful app store).

    So the question to me is: Are Nokia real committed to the App Store and to the Developers? Or are only committed with the devices that sells?

    The "protections", sorry, but in my opinion are "bull cheat", if anybody want to break with time can break.

    See the MP3 (download music) story. To me in this case is the same solution.
    Last edited by cotonet; 2011-12-08 at 13:02.

  8. #8
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    Re: Alert! Website exist that distributes your paid content for free!

    Oh well,

    at least the two sites that actually posted my stuff illegally removed the content after I contacting them

  9. #9
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    Re: Alert! Website exist that distributes your paid content for free!

    Quote Originally Posted by Langfinger View Post
    Oh well,

    at least the two sites that actually posted my stuff illegally removed the content after I contacting them
    Congrats . When I started with publishing to Ovi I also looked for pirated versions of my app. But it's (almost) impossible to remove all pirated copies. I bet there are far more than two sites offering your app for free. I found my app on 10ths of sites and contacting all hosters was too time consuming and one deleted file results in 5 new files. The only thing that makes me really angry about this is, that these illegal sites earn money throught G**gle ad*ense and companions and even after contacting these ad agencies nothing happens.

  10. #10
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    Re: Alert! Website exist that distributes your paid content for free!

    Quote Originally Posted by pixsta View Post
    Congrats . When I started with publishing to Ovi I also looked for pirated versions of my app. But it's (almost) impossible to remove all pirated copies. I bet there are far more than two sites offering your app for free. I found my app on 10ths of sites and contacting all hosters was too time consuming and one deleted file results in 5 new files. The only thing that makes me really angry about this is, that these illegal sites earn money throught G**gle ad*ense and companions and even after contacting these ad agencies nothing happens.
    Yea, I hear you man!

    I was thinking the same thing while looking at those sites. Some of them even have donation buttons and urge their users to keep supporting the site. How about giving the money to the poor developers that created the content!

  11. #11
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    Re: Alert! Website exist that distributes your paid content for free!

    Quote Originally Posted by Langfinger View Post
    How about giving the money to the poor developers that created the content!
    It's "education" nothing more. Some people think (are "educated") that is cool stealing the others. Or think that is nothing wrong in that gesture (the developers are already rich - It's like a Robin Wood gesture).

    This applies to our app's but also to other things that we can download from the Internet (Movies, Music, Desktop Software, Etc).

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