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  1. #1
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    Harmattan - develop app or not

    Hi,

    What do you think? Is advisable develop apps for harmattan or is it really "dead" platform?


    THX

  2. #2
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    Re: Harmattan - develop app or not

    Nokia will not be releasing any new devices for the platform, so if you think you want to make new apps for the N9, then feel free to do so.

  3. #3
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    Re: Harmattan - develop app or not

    it goes on ... so isn't better carry on symbian apps?

  4. #4
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    Re: Harmattan - develop app or not

    Surely you can do that, anyway, I would also think that most likely there wont be too many if any new Symbian devices to be launched, so the market is likely not going to be growing.

    if you have skills on Symbian and you have idea which matches the platform, surely you can do it, but if you are thinking of learning Symbian, then I would suggest looking into developing Java apps for our Asha devices instead, as well as of course doing Windows phone development.

  5. #5
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    Re: Harmattan - develop app or not

    yes, it is dead platform, same as Symbian. Do not develop for these.
    Windows Phone platform for now is almost "dead" too: 2% of smartphones market.
    Java apps for Asha - do not develop for it neither, it is a low budget device for "low budget people" from "low budget countries". People owning these phones won't pay for apps so much.

    Best to develop: iOS ...or Android as second option (plan B) 5 times less profit in comparison with iOS.

  6. #6
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    Re: Harmattan - develop app or not

    Quote Originally Posted by kompotFX View Post
    yes, it is dead platform, same as Symbian. Do not develop for these.
    Windows Phone platform for now is almost "dead" too: 2% of smartphones market.
    Java apps for Asha - do not develop for it neither, it is a low budget device for "low budget people" from "low budget countries". People owning these phones won't pay for apps so much.

    Best to develop: iOS ...or Android as second option (plan B) 5 times less profit in comparison with iOS.
    Couldn't disagree more with this, until earlier this year Symbian still had the largest market share of devices out there. They may not be any new handsets coming out but the sheer volume already in the marketplace and still in use represents a very large target audience. Not only are there more Symbian users out there than iOS but the application marketplace isn't nearly so oversaturated. If you don't have a serious advertising budget for iOS then you're most likely going to get ignored and looked over.

    The attitude regarding Asha devices completely misses the point. Better to sell a 100,000 copies at 10cents a go than 1,000 at $1 (which judging from some acquientances' sales is what most iOS developers can hope to get as a maximum).

    There's also the fact that Digia are producing baseports for Qt to iOS and Android anyway. So if he develops his application for Symbian and the N9 he can address a current market of over 100,000,000 devices. With the future prospect of porting (with some small effort) to those other platforms in Q2 2013. There's also Jolla, which is Meego based like the N9, who have a deal to provide Qt supporting devices to China Mobile, who target a market of 150,000,000 users. There's a lot more to the mobile market than just Silicon Valley's view.

  7. #7
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    Re: Harmattan - develop app or not

    Quote Originally Posted by duncan.waugh View Post
    Couldn't disagree more with this, until earlier this year Symbian still had the largest market share of devices out there. They may not be any new handsets coming out but the sheer volume already in the marketplace and still in use represents a very large target audience. Not only are there more Symbian users out there than iOS but the application marketplace isn't nearly so oversaturated. If you don't have a serious advertising budget for iOS then you're most likely going to get ignored and looked over.

    The attitude regarding Asha devices completely misses the point. Better to sell a 100,000 copies at 10cents a go than 1,000 at $1 (which judging from some acquientances' sales is what most iOS developers can hope to get as a maximum).

    There's also the fact that Digia are producing baseports for Qt to iOS and Android anyway. So if he develops his application for Symbian and the N9 he can address a current market of over 100,000,000 devices. With the future prospect of porting (with some small effort) to those other platforms in Q2 2013. There's also Jolla, which is Meego based like the N9, who have a deal to provide Qt supporting devices to China Mobile, who target a market of 150,000,000 users. There's a lot more to the mobile market than just Silicon Valley's view.
    Dream on about Qt everywhere, dream on about selling 100000 copies on asha phones, dream on.......

  8. #8
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    Re: Harmattan - develop app or not

    Quote Originally Posted by kompotFX View Post
    Dream on about Qt everywhere, dream on about selling 100000 copies on asha phones, dream on.......
    Good that you still have dreams, always good to try catching them.

  9. #9
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    Re: Harmattan - develop app or not

    Quote Originally Posted by kompotFX View Post
    Dream on about Qt everywhere
    Qt was a widely used framework before Nokia bought TrollTech, that hasn't changed. You'll find the desktop and embedded variants used in many places. I see no reason to believe that Digia will fail to provide a solid baseport to the likes of Android, there's been a community driven one for some time that is supposedly rather solid. Qt is in very safe hands after the move to Digia, besides the staff who moved over with the transition, Digia has had a long and close history to it, I mean they were even responsible for training Nokia staff. I really can't think of anyone better suited to driving it forwards from here on out.


    Quote Originally Posted by kompotFX View Post
    dream on about selling 100000 copies on asha phones, dream on.......
    As far as I'm aware there are companies out there with these kinds of figures on S40 a good while back. I'm not targeting S40 myself but I see no reason that any developer should blindly ignore a market of that size and importance.

  10. #10
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    Re: Harmattan - develop app or not

    Quote Originally Posted by duncan.waugh View Post
    Qt was a widely used framework before Nokia bought TrollTech, that hasn't changed. You'll find the desktop and embedded variants used in many places. I see no reason to believe that Digia will fail to provide a solid baseport to the likes of Android, there's been a community driven one for some time that is supposedly rather solid. Qt is in very safe hands after the move to Digia, besides the staff who moved over with the transition, Digia has had a long and close history to it, I mean they were even responsible for training Nokia staff. I really can't think of anyone better suited to driving it forwards from here on out.
    Yes, Qt is old, well known, great framework, it is my favorite one. I wrote several apps for Symbian, Harmattan and MS Windows using it.
    But sad fact is that Qt is dead for mobile platforms. It will be dead until Google, Microsoft or Apple will decide to make it as a part of their mobile platforms, but it will never happen, face this fact. It is nothing to do with Digia intents. Thanks to Digia the Qt will live on Windows and Linux as it was before with Trolltech.



    Quote Originally Posted by duncan.waugh View Post
    As far as I'm aware there are companies out there with these kinds of figures on S40 a good while back. I'm not targeting S40 myself but I see no reason that any developer should blindly ignore a market of that size and importance.
    If you want make profit of developing for mobiles than Asha is the last platform you should focus on. It is just waste of time at least you don't have java app written in advance for another platfotm and it is easy to port (depends of app type).
    For example: go to store.ovi.com, select your device as for example Asha 303, open "Tools" category, select "Best sellers". Check how many apps got reviews at all. Even on the first page there are apps with no-stars rank. People who buy low budget device are interesting in use phone as a phone: make calls, send sms, use camera, listen music and maybe download few free games.

  11. #11
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    Re: Harmattan - develop app or not

    Quote Originally Posted by kompotFX View Post
    Check how many apps got reviews at all. Even on the first page there are apps with no-stars rank. People who buy low budget device are interesting in use phone as a phone: make calls, send sms, use camera, listen music and maybe download few free games.
    And yet despite this, the fact is there are many developers having more than 100000 downloads. I suspect a lot of people think of 10c as "free", so they hit that button a lot more times than they will at $1.

    I don't agree with you regarding Qt on mobile - the jury isn't in yet.

  12. #12
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    Re: Harmattan - develop app or not

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishwillee View Post
    And yet despite this, the fact is there are many developers having more than 100000 downloads. I suspect a lot of people think of 10c as "free", so they hit that button a lot more times than they will at $1.

    I don't agree with you regarding Qt on mobile - the jury isn't in yet.
    Have you published any app for S40 platform? What the sales chart is now, any real statistics you can show?

    Qt on mobiles is temporarily dead because of Symbian and Harmattan are dead, thanks to our wise burningplatform guy. Why temporarily: because it is 0.1% chance that it will reborn on BB10 ;-)

  13. #13
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    Re: Harmattan - develop app or not

    Quote Originally Posted by developer 123 View Post
    Have you published any app for S40 platform? What the sales chart is now, any real statistics you can show?
    No and no. Statistics are here. They aren't particularly useful because they don't break down by platform or free vs. paid. There are some impressive download numbers and success stories" which are indicative.

    I do personally know a few developers who are happy with their returns from Series 40 Java apps, so it is certainly possible to do well.

    Quote Originally Posted by developer 123 View Post
    Qt on mobiles is temporarily dead because of Symbian and Harmattan are dead, thanks to our wise burningplatform guy. Why temporarily: because it is 0.1% chance that it will reborn on BB10 ;-)
    I agree with Duncan - there is still a big addressable market in Qt on Symbian. Of course this will drop over the coming years so you would have to consider whether worth your investment as a developer if starting from scratch.

    In any case, its clear that you have firm opinions and nothing I can say will shift them, so lets agree to disagree.

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