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  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Nokia Asha applications [Price Point Policy] [Unlimited Updates] [Suggestions]

    As we all know - or most of us - that paid applications on Nokia Store are being sold under a 'Price Point Policy' drawn / set by Nokia.

    Where the application publisher can select one of the available Price Points - Let us say the lowest Price Point which is #1 - to be the price of the application.


    According to Nokia Store 'Price Point Policy' when the application is set to the price point #1 :-

    1- It is being sold for 1 Euro in countries as [ Finland - Germany - etc. ]

    2- In the meanwhile it is being sold for 0.5 Euro in countries as [ Egypt ]

    3- And For 0.07 - 0.21 Euro in most Asian / African countries.


    * Note: These are the prices before the deduction [ Nokia takes 30% + Local taxes (if any) ].


    And if we combined this 'Price Point Policy' with two facts:-

    1- The low price of Nokia Asha mobiles (100$ give or take)

    2- Indian market - as example - is one of the most important & supportive markets the applications developers counting on.

    3- Unlimited updates for the purchased application from Nokia Store.


    The result would be that any professional developer will not be confident to develop / sell applications for Nokia Asha phones, especially if the developer lives off the sales coming from Nokia store.


    So either the developer will raise the price point to sell his / her application in a fair price in the Eastern & African markets & loose the European & Western markets (Who gonna pay 100$ for Asha mobile & pay 3 Euros for an application!!).


    Or to keep the price point at 1 Euro and in return the developer will not make reasonable money from the Eastern & African markets.



    Thoughts:
    -----------


    - There might be solutions that come in ones mind, as making copies of the same application and setting a different price point for each copy & selling it in specific markets based on the 'Price Point Policy'.


    But, as we all know that when a developer / publisher publishes a new application, (s)he needs the biggest support & publicity & 'Reviews' for the new application; And this will not happen if (s)he used the previously mentioned solution.


    - Different solution is to publish one copy of the application on Nokia Store until the application makes a good reputation, after that the publisher creates other copies of the application & restrict each one to specific markets with different Price Point that guarantee a respectful revenue.


    At this point the developer / publisher will be considered - From customers point of view - a vampire who is eager to suck their blood (Money).

    Most Customers will loose their interest / confidence in this developer / publisher applications, which will damage the developer / publisher on the long term.



    Conclusion / Suggestions:
    -----------------------------


    1- To limit the 'Unlimited updates' of purchased application to a year since the day the customer bought the application.

    This way the developers will be able to continue developing applications for Nokia Asha; In the meanwhile the customers will be satisfied with a full year of updates.


    2- If Nokia is not welling to change the price point, then why not adding a feature for the publishers where:

    - The Publisher will publish different copies of the same application.

    - Yet, all copies will have the same link on Nokia Store (Same review page).

    - But, Each copy will have it's own distribution countries & price point selected by the publisher.


    * I believe this simple solutions will give Asha developers more confidence & the well to keep working on creating new applications, as they sell their applications for an accepted price - for both customers & developers - while they get the same support / publicity from Asha community world wide.




    It would be appreciated if other developers / publishers share their opinions & suggestions; In the end we all (Customers - Developers - Nokia) in the same boat.


    My best regards, and thank you for reading

    Ashraf Alshahawy
    Nokia Asha applications [Price Point Policy] [Unlimited Updates] [Suggestions]: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Discussion/showthread.php?240423-Nokia-Asha-applications-Price-Point-Policy-Unlimited-Updates-Suggestions

  2. #2
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    Re: Nokia Asha applications [Price Point Policy] [Unlimited Updates] [Suggestions]

    Interesting, no one reply to one of the most important topics to Asha developers, I feel like I was talking about International Policy not the 'Price Point Policy'
    Nokia Asha applications [Price Point Policy] [Unlimited Updates] [Suggestions]: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Discussion/showthread.php?240423-Nokia-Asha-applications-Price-Point-Policy-Unlimited-Updates-Suggestions

  3. #3
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    Re: Nokia Asha applications [Price Point Policy] [Unlimited Updates] [Suggestions]

    Hi Ashraf

    I can't comment officially on the price point policy since its not an area I work in or know anything useful about. My two second thought was that there will be a balance of cost vs number of people who would buy an app - and also regionally in what people are prepared to pay for an app. So raising the cost in India (for example) might reduce the number of downloads more than the income you'd get.

    Which is not to say that other ideas like time limited licenses would not be pragmatic solutions/ideas or that the current policy is the best possible policy. I'll forward this link to the store - they may choose to answer.

    Regards
    H

  4. #4
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    Re: Nokia Asha applications [Price Point Policy] [Unlimited Updates] [Suggestions]

    Hi Hamish,

    First I'd love to thank you for joining my question,


    I do understand as a Nokia Publisher that increasing application price may not - and usually not - cause a higher income for the publisher.

    Also I understand the long term / purpose of Nokia Price Point, where lowering the price in specific countries with a high number of potential customers - as in India - would help the publisher, as this will encourage the customers to buy the application & getting it more popular.


    1- To limit the 'Unlimited updates' of purchased application to a year since the day the customer bought the application.

    This way the developers will be able to continue developing applications for Nokia Asha; In the meanwhile the customers will be satisfied with a full year of updates.

    That's why I push more for my first suggestion, Why?

    1- To encourage new developers to become Asha developers / publishers.

    2- To make sure they will continue creating new applications for Asha devices when they become more expert full of confidence developers [ Which will happen usually in the first year ].


    BTW, I received a lot of questions from new publishers related to this matter, and that's what motivated me to open this matter for question, hoping to find a solution satisfies both [ Developers - Customers ].


    My best regards,

    Ashraf
    Nokia Asha applications [Price Point Policy] [Unlimited Updates] [Suggestions]: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Discussion/showthread.php?240423-Nokia-Asha-applications-Price-Point-Policy-Unlimited-Updates-Suggestions

  5. #5
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    Re: Nokia Asha applications [Price Point Policy] [Unlimited Updates] [Suggestions]

    Hi Ashraf

    I agree with the general principle that developers will be encouraged to update their app if the extra work isn't given away free forever (Angry birds have done pretty well out of the model of unlimited updates after first purchase, but I think they'd be the minority). I don't know if auto-cutting off updates is the best way - I think perhaps a more common model is supplying "minor versions" as free updates, but "major versions" are new applications that need to be re-purchased.

    Often these things look easy, but are prohibitively expensive to implement over an existing architecture. Whether such a thing is reasonable/possible in the Nokia store context would be a question for the store to answer.

    Regards
    H

  6. #6
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    Re: Nokia Asha applications [Price Point Policy] [Unlimited Updates] [Suggestions]

    Hi Ashraf

    I see your point. I am hoping to find an official answer for the billing matrix definition, or if necessary the matrix should be updated.

    Other solutions would require changes for the system. For that I would hope concrete proposals. It is always a matter of priority and real need, what gets really done.
    I am not promising anything, but just trying to clarify what developers really would like to see implemented in this context.

    1) Different mechanism together with billing matrix. Ie. more freedom for developers to set the prices region/country by country.
    2) Time limited purchases made possible as well. Ie. application updates not available after one year without re-purchase. Up to developer to set.
    3) Other options?

    Feel free to comment and vote on these options. As I said I am not promising anything, but it always helps to understand the developers point of view. Believe or not we have been thinking of these things already for a while.

  7. #7
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    Post Re: Nokia Asha applications [Price Point Policy] [Unlimited Updates] [Suggestions]

    Hi Kalle,

    Thank you for joining the discussion, and it's nice to meet you here as well.

    I vote for 1) & 2) and I thank you for adding "Up to developer to set" when it comes to "application updates not available after one year without re-purchase."


    And allow me to add a few extra suggestions / observations, and how they could strength Nokia community in general and to support Asha developing in particular.

    ---------------------------------

    [ More freedom for developers to set the prices for each country ]


    New publishers need short quick guide directed to them to:

    1- Explain the relation between the selected application price and the number of sales.

    2- Informing the publishers to consider the customers average income in some countries which will affect the number of application sales / received support.

    3- Giving the developer the recommended prices by Nokia based on its researches, yet the publisher has the ability to change them.

    4- Recommending the publisher to look around for similar applications before setting application price.


    * For that I recommend to create a light weight application of Nokia Store Client that shows the ranks of the applications in each country.

    - This will motivate the developer, and will help to select the appropriate price based on application progress in each country (Especially to make discounts).

    * Adding a map on Nokia community that shows the number of sold Asha devices in each country.

    * Adding a map on Nokia community that shows the average income of each country residents.


    Those maps & light weight Nokia Store Client application will help the publisher to understand the Price Point set by Nokia,
    and to select the appropriate application price in case of need to.


    Notes (Based on my observations):

    1) Preparing a Nokia developer / publisher costs Nokia a lot of money & time by sending free devices / services / guidance.

    2) New Nokia Store developers / publishers start to complain from the Price Point Policy in less than 6 months, and they start to
    think about moving to other platforms in less than a year (They are now more experienced & full of trust & they look for more profits).

    3) Asha developers mainly use Java, which makes it a high risk to loose them for other platforms that provide them more control on their applications prices.





    [ 1 Year unlimited updates per-purchase ]

    Customer (Benefits):

    - Up to 5 license / devices (Currently used policy).

    - Unlimited updates per-purchase for a year since purchase (For the 5 devices).

    - Solid / Experienced / Welling developers who continue developing more strong applications for Asha.


    * 1 Year is what it takes to turn a new basic application to a fully professional application.

    * 1 Year is what it takes for the developer to decide to continue working on Asha or to find another profiting platform.


    Developers (Benefits):

    - No need to create another copy of the same application & loosing the rating / reviewed / referral links they have (It's very depressing to developers).

    - More satisfaction & welling to create new applications & updating the old ones using their current experience.

    - More confidence that Asha devices are meant to be supported by Nokia for a long time.


    Conclusion:

    If we look at my suggestions you will find that [ Nokia - Developers - Customers ] benefit from these changes:

    - Nokia maintain its developers.

    - Developers are welling to continue working on new applications.

    - Customers are happy with their stable applications created by experienced developers.


    [ Leave it to the market, What does it mean? ]

    The whole community working together in harmony [ Nokia / Bloggers / Developers / Customers ]

    Nokia guides the publishers to the advisable prices using what I mentioned above.

    If the developers used a high price compared to the application quality, Bloggers & Customers will take the appropriate actions to advice & direct the developer to lower the application price.

    Allowing the developer to understand the market & its welling to buy the applications at certain prices, in addition to the given freedom to set the application price, this gives the developer the confidence while developing & the acceptance of the income, as the prices is set by the developer.



    [ Educate Customers ]

    Just like there is a notification for available updates, there should be a message informing the user to take a part and to review downloaded applications to support its continuous updates.


    [ Protect Developers ]

    Restrict adding application reviews to the mobile IMEI not to a free user account; Current method allows spammers to add false reviews which confuse both [ Customers - Developers ] & makes the reviews & Nokia Store unreliable source to find out application quality and if it worth to be bought.


    ---------------------------------

    These are the basic guide lines of what I see could improve Nokia Asha progress in the long term (From my point of view / real experience / observations / feedback).


    My best regards, and thank you for taking an interest in such important discussion.

    Ashraf
    Last edited by ashraf fawzy; 2013-05-20 at 16:16. Reason: Correcting wrong spelling
    Nokia Asha applications [Price Point Policy] [Unlimited Updates] [Suggestions]: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Discussion/showthread.php?240423-Nokia-Asha-applications-Price-Point-Policy-Unlimited-Updates-Suggestions

  8. #8
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    Re: Nokia Asha applications [Price Point Policy] [Unlimited Updates] [Suggestions]

    I vote for option 1 since some country price point is very low especially india.

    For me updates should only not available for existing users after one and half or two years.One year is too short.Some developer only push updates once every few months and some updates is just even a bug fix.

    As for other is no longer relevant for me since asha is not an option for me.

  9. #9
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    Re: Nokia Asha applications [Price Point Policy] [Unlimited Updates] [Suggestions]

    I think, developer should be able to decide, if an update is free or paid. If you buy a car, you will not expect to get new updated car for free forever. But this is something people expect to happen, if they buy a 1Eur application.

    One way to implement paid updates could be based on minor and major version numbers. Minor version number update were always free but update to new version having larger major number could have a price (if developer requests that by defining a price for update)

    I don't know if such a version numbering exist in Asha apps. But in Symbian, this were possible.

    I would not want to have forced schemes like "free updated for one year", because it is so application specific thing, what kind of pricing is good.
    Last edited by juhani.viiitala; 2013-05-22 at 15:21. Reason: new ideas

  10. #10
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    Re: Nokia Asha applications [Price Point Policy] [Unlimited Updates] [Suggestions]

    Quote Originally Posted by juhani.viiitala View Post
    I think, developer should be able to decide, if an update is free or paid. If you buy a car, you will not expect to get new updated car for free forever. But this is something people expect to happen, if they buy a 1Eur application.

    One way to implement paid updates could be based on minor and major version numbers. Minor version number update were always free but update to new version having larger major number could have a price (if developer requests that by defining a price for update)

    I don't know if such a version numbering exist in Asha apps. But in Symbian, this were possible.

    I would not want to have forced schemes like "free updated for one year", because it is so application specific thing, what kind of pricing is good.

    I think this would be a better solution, personally, when someone has bought one of my Applications they are entitled to unlimited free updates, as a customer you be rather nacked off if you had to pay every year.


    Moving a bit offtopic, but one thing I wish Nokia could do is set a minimum character limit for support emails, some of the frankly pointless emails we get from fake email addresses, with absolutely no information at all about their problem is unreal, for example I sometimes get "Nokia n8", "no function".

    How that is supposed to give us a idea of a problem I would love to know.

    Another is that the support email is only revealed if the user is logged in, the amount of spam I have received from bots kind of scanning the content pages for emails is ridiculous.

    Rant over.
    Last edited by allstar12345; 2013-05-23 at 22:48.

  11. #11
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    Re: Nokia Asha applications [Price Point Policy] [Unlimited Updates] [Suggestions]

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishwillee View Post
    I think perhaps a more common model is supplying "minor versions" as free updates, but "major versions" are new applications that need to be re-purchased.
    H
    Thank you Hamish for your contribution, & I highly recommend your technique [ Minor - Major versions ] rather than using a full year for unlimited updates, why?

    Because using a full year of unlimited updates may / mostly will not encourage the developer to keep adding more new features & major upgrades, which will not be in the favor of the customers;

    While delivering minor updates for free & major updates for money will encourage developers & drives them to get the best out of their minds in their applications, because they know that they will rewarded for their hard work, which will create a healthy environment for Nokia / Developers / Customers.

    My best regards, and thank you all for your contributions.

    Ashraf
    Nokia Asha applications [Price Point Policy] [Unlimited Updates] [Suggestions]: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Discussion/showthread.php?240423-Nokia-Asha-applications-Price-Point-Policy-Unlimited-Updates-Suggestions

  12. #12
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    Re: Nokia Asha applications [Price Point Policy] [Unlimited Updates] [Suggestions]

    My 2 bits "as a developer" (which I add because I have no influence over what the publisher support team choose to do and I don't want that implied :-0 )
    Quote Originally Posted by juhani.viiitala View Post
    I think, developer should be able to decide, if an update is free or paid.
    That makes sense to me.

    I like the idea of flexibility and letting the market decide - ie the choice of whether to charge and what to charge for any update being with the developer. That said, "as a developer" I would expect Nokia to set the reasonable default values, and I wouldn't argue against the default price points and whether an update is chargeable or not (presumably not). A really great store interface would have some visible cue for the publisher when doing a major update to remind me of the option to change the price point.


    Quote Originally Posted by juhani.viiitala View Post
    I would not want to have forced schemes like "free updated for one year", because it is so application specific thing, what kind of pricing is good.
    I agree. A good suggestion to "seed" the discussion though.



    Are there any other models we haven't discussed in this context? For example I would not expect any charge for an app that has in app advertising.
    Last edited by hamishwillee; 2013-05-24 at 01:22.

  13. #13
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    Re: Nokia Asha applications [Price Point Policy] [Unlimited Updates] [Suggestions]

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishwillee View Post
    My 2 bits "as a developer" (which I add because I have no influence over what the publisher support team choose to do and I don't want that implied :-0 )
    No one implied that, but confirming on that never hurts.


    Quote Originally Posted by hamishwillee View Post
    For example I would not expect any charge for an app that has in app advertising.
    I think this should be left to the market, and depends on Nokia new policy (If any).
    Nokia Asha applications [Price Point Policy] [Unlimited Updates] [Suggestions]: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Discussion/showthread.php?240423-Nokia-Asha-applications-Price-Point-Policy-Unlimited-Updates-Suggestions

  14. #14
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    Re: Nokia Asha applications [Price Point Policy] [Unlimited Updates] [Suggestions]

    Some good news. India pricing is going to change shortly to be more fair for developers.

  15. #15
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    Re: Nokia Asha applications [Price Point Policy] [Unlimited Updates] [Suggestions]

    That is truly good news (because 5cent for first tier price seem so low)

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