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  1. #1
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    General Observations

    The Nokia 3650 is a great phone and the support here is tops. Here is some feedback...

    1. In the USA, not many desktop computers have IrDA or Bluetooth connections so why not a direct USB connection from PCs to the 3650 like on PDAs? In the worst case, how about just a drag and drop of program files to the MMC card reader on the PC with some utility to move and install the program once the card is in the phone?

    2. I don't want to reinvent the wheel testing all the combinations of codecs and bitrates, why don't you guys just tell us what codecs work best at which bitrates from the MMC? That would include video and audio. Your White papers are great, but although "RealOne9" is recommended as the best codec, does that take into account the slow processor of the 3650? In otherwords, in real life, is RealOne9 video with Real Audio 7 the best (Your white paper It says Audio 8 should only be used for audio only)? Also it says that the top bitrate should be no more than 64Kbit/s - is this the system bitrate or just video. If just video, how high can I go with the audio? If this is for the system, what is the recommended breakdown in bitrates for video and sound?

    3. 176 x 144 x 15fps is tiny for video compared to 320 x 240 x 30fps PDAs but as we see at the phone power-up a 10fps fullscreen video might be possible with MPEG4 - any thoughts on how we can achieve 176x208? That would look great, but my guess is the 3650's processor just couldn't keep up with decoding a system stream. IF THERE IS ANY WAY OF GOING FULL SCREEN THOUGH I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW.

    4. Why did you ever use the dying/dead Multimedia Card format instead of the standard SD cards? What are the limitations on the MMCs? I was able to start with a 256MB KingMax card OK, but although it still works with the phone, my PC has stopped recognizing it! What know problems exist with large cards?

    5. This phone could go way past being a "novelty," but not unless you help us make that happen. That means Nokia has to help developers get our content ported so that it works well for end-users. The white papers are VERY good and cover a lot of ground well, but if you guys could offer one day audio and video compression seminars in NY, LA and Chicago, that might be a start. Just the fact that production pros are getting together means a better chance at getting feedback from the field...

    6. I don't know about others, but I constantly access the MMC. It would seem a better location would be through an outside slot not burried under the battery.
    Last edited by tdugan; 2003-08-17 at 13:06.

  2. #2
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    Hi,

    Here's some clarifications:

    2. For streaming in 3650 it's suggeted to use RealVideo/Audio 8. RealVideo/Audio 9 is not supported by the RealOne Player in 3650. Bit rates are dependent of the available bandwidth in the networks. Currently GPRS network provides just over 40 kbit/s depending of the configuration. In this case streamable content shouldn't exeed 30 kbit/s (audio+video), ie. selected video bit rate = suggested total network bit rate - selected audio bit rate.

    For local playback H.263 coded video and AMR coded audio. Max. bit rate for local playback is 64 kbit/s.

    4. MMC is one of the cheapest and widely spreaded memory cards today. Also the compatibility with previous products is important.

    5. Forum Nokia have been arranged and will arrange technical days/breakfasts for developers concerning video and streaming in Nokia developer Hub in Helsinki, Finland. You're more than welcome! More info from Forum Nokia website.

    Best regards,
    V / Forum Nokia

  3. #3
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    Enstedt, thanks so much for your reply! It is good to know that Nokia checks these forums. Other manufacturers like Adobe are not so good at this!

    1. I guess wireless transfers are the only way to go with wireless devices, but for moving large media files and testing programs, it would seem that a hard connection would be helpful on future devices ------OR------- get the storage card to an outside slot! I think I am ruining the thin plastic cover by popping it open dozens of times a day during tests (it now shifts up and down).

    2. I do not intend to do streaming video/audio system files just LOCAL PLAYBACK from the MMC card. I am still not clear on what the ABSOLUTE BEST video and audio codec combination and the target bitrates for both are. Would you please be more specific? You mention H.263 coded video and AMR (AMR2 at the highest bitrate was the only codec that was barely acceptable). You also mentioned a system bitrate of 64kb/s but don't say what the split is for 176x144x10fpsxmono. 56/8? 48/16? The reason I am asking for very specific information is from my limited testing so far, it looks like the Real Video compressions are the cleanest so far. Also, I believe that this is also mentioned in your white paper on video. Here are more details...

    So far I tested the Real Mobile Producer ($7,500 US) and of all the compression options listed, the Real Video produced the cleanest file FOR LOCAL PLAYBACK. Although audio was about A.M. radio quality the video was the best of all the available combinations with NO ARTIFACTS. I am running Win98SE on all the computers in my shop so I was not able to try your compression tools, but I hope to upgrade one this week (that beats the heck out of spending $7,500 for Real Mobile Producer!).

    In the meantime, could you restate Nokia's and your recommendations for:

    A. The best codec combo for LOCAL VIDEO/AUDIO PLAYBACK
    B. The breakdown of bitrates for the system (video and audio)
    c. Recommended compression tools. I will be able to use your utilities Friday but all possible utilities that you may know of and recommend would be good...

    3. Is there any way to generate full screen playback at 10fps like your opening handshake animation FOR LOCAL PLAYBACK? If not, can I code a self-playing file to do this? How and what resources can you point me to on this? That full screen presentation looks VERY nice in size and in terms of screen clutter.

    4. FYI Multimedia cards are dead in the USA. The card of choice for USERS is Compact Flash where a 512MB card sells for what I spent for a 256MB MMC card last week. On the other hand I bought a 256MB SD card a year ago for half of what I paid for the MMC. Also, Large MMCs are almost impossible to find here and seem to have stopped at 128MBs with major manufacturers. On the other hand, SanDisk is supposed to be shipping a 1GB SD card later this year at half the price I paid for my 1GB CF MicroDrive!

    5. OK, if I have to get to Helsinki fine - but wouldn't it be more productive for you to convince your boss you need to fly to NYC to meet with a dozen or so developers? You could also tell him you need to stay at a fancy hotel and need plenty of spending money for a couple of Broadway shows. Hey, maybe even T-Mobile or AT&T could sponsor you!

    6. Yes you need outside access to the MMC AND if you could accommodate SD cards too, that would be a HUGE leap forward (SD is backwardly compatible to MMC but not the other way around).

    ADDITIONAL COMMENT/QUESTION: I just finished testing the Real Audio codec and got amazing quality at about a third the bitrate of MP3 at comparable quality. The problem is your Real player has no position control or capacity for a playlist that I can see. Is there a way of building a playlist or at least chaining the RA/RM files in some way so they will all play automatically?

    SECOND COMMENT: Thomas Dolby mentioned in the audio section that you folks had a store to sell developer products. I came here to get information to compress my content for USA distribution. I did contact Nokia USA and got no reply. Should I be dealing with you folks in Norway? If you have some contact information, you can either post it here or can reach me at my registered email address or phone.

    Enstedt, thanks again for your patience and help. All I can say is that I believe your 60 series is the future of mobile communication and entertainment! YEAH!!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by tdugan; 2003-08-20 at 16:10.

  4. #4
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    Hi,

    > A. The best codec combo for LOCAL
    > VIDEO/AUDIO PLAYBACK
    > B. The breakdown of bitrates for
    > the system (video and audio)

    There isn't much choices for mobiles yet, ie. you can use Real's codecs or standard 3GPP codecs. Of course to ensure the interoperability, it is recommended to use standard 3GPP codecs. Here's couple examples for local playback:

    For Real:
    RealVideo 8, 42/34 kbit/s, QCIF (176x144) resolution, 10 fps + RealAudio 8/16 kbit/s.

    There's quite good optimization guide available from the Real Networks.

    For 3GPP:
    H.263 codec for video with 37 kbit/s, QCIF resolution, 10 fps + amr narrowband coded audio with 12.2 kbit/s.

    Both options take about 50 kbit/s bit rate.


    > c. Recommended compression tools.
    > I will be able to use your utilities
    > Friday but all possible utilities that
    > you may know of and recommend
    > would be good...

    For producing Real content you'll of course need tools from RealNetworks. This means Helix Mobile Produces 2.0. It can also handle 3GPP (H.263, AMR-NB and AMR-WB)codecs. Apple's QuickTime 6.3 Pro, Phillips Platform 4 and Packet Videos PV Author handles 3GPP codecs. Nokia has also Multimedia Converter 2.0 available at Forum Nokia website.

    > 3. Is there any way to generate full
    > screen playback at 10fps like your
    > opening handshake animation FOR
    > LOCAL PLAYBACK? If not, can I code
    > a self-playing file to do this? How and
    > what resources can you point me to
    > on this? That full screen presentation
    > looks VERY nice in size and in terms
    > of screen clutter.

    None of the native players in 3650 support full-screen video, ie. 176x208. I don't know about the 3rd party players though.

    > 5. OK, if I have to get to Helsinki fine -
    > but wouldn't it be more productive for
    > you to convince your boss you need
    > to fly to NYC to meet with a dozen or
    > so developers?

    We have been arranged and will continue to arrange developer conferences around the world. Don't know what's happening in the US at the moment, but I can find out.

    > Thomas Dolby mentioned in the audio
    > section that you folks had a store to
    > sell developer products.

    Yes, we have Nokia Tradepoint and Nokia Softwaremarket.

    Best regards,
    V / Forum Nokia

  5. #5
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    Sticky FAQ

    Enstedt, thanks again this is VERY good information - I need to buy you a drink when you get to NYC to run a seminar!

    As far as your answers, you should either fold them into the white paper on video or use them as a sticky FAQ at the beginning of this forum. I would suggest the same approach in the audio and Digital Rights Management (DRM) forums - it will save you a lot of headaches! Also, you should never assume that your readers know anything about what you are talking about. Because of that, you should spell everything out and provide links as in my use of DRM. An example would be your use of JRE (Java Runtime Environment) in another of your answers.

    I also would like to know when you are going to be in NYC or the NE USA - please either post it here or email me. As far as full screen video - it would be great if you can find out if there is a third party solution or how I would code a work-around. On Microsoft Smartphones, you can increase the display size by creating a skin for the player. I would be open to any suggestions - even if I have to work on a self-playing application like the Macromedia Flash "Projector."

    Finally I asked a question in audio you might have missed. You mentioned the Real player does not have a playlist function for local playback, would it be possible to create a work-around by using a list of fake URLs that point to the MMC? Could you give an example of the statement you would need for this to work? Where would you put the statements and would you save them as a txt file? If needed you can answer this question in that forum and I will remove this audio question from this video post.

    Oh - and I hope you tell the design engineers to work on moving to cheaper/larger/better SD cards with the next generation of Nokia Smartphones!
    Last edited by tdugan; 2003-08-21 at 14:19.

  6. #6
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    Hi,

    And sorry for the long delay...

    > You mentioned the Real player does not have a playlist function for local playback,
    > would it be possible to create a work-around by using a list of fake URLs
    > that point to the MMC?

    You can create a playlist for RealOne player by adding several entrys to the ram-file. This works for local playback also.
    Here's an example:

    file:///e:/Videos/video1.rm
    file:///e:/Videos/video2.rm

    Save the file as a ram-file and send it to your phone.

    Best regards,
    V / Forum Nokia

  7. #7
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    Thanks Enstedt!

    I am new to this please forgive my stupidity. You didn't mention but I will assume that a ram file is a ASCII text file with the file names and locations as per your post saved with the .RAM extension as is done with Real Internet RAM hyperlinks on the PC side. Thanks again I will be using this all in a presentation to a USA provider tomorrow!
    Last edited by tdugan; 2003-09-03 at 06:25.

  8. #8
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    Hi,

    > I will assume that a ram file is a ASCII text file with the file names and locations
    > as per your post saved with the .RAM extension as is done with Real Internet
    > RAM hyperlinks on the PC side.

    Exactly...

    Best regards,
    V / Forum Nokia

  9. #9
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