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  1. #1
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    J2ME Polish: a new build tool for professionals

    Hi everyone,

    I would like to tell you about J2ME Polish, which eases the development of J2ME applications a lot:

    > Device Optimization is easy with the powerful preprocessing tools and the integrated device database. Just use
    //#= int screenHeight = ${polish.ScreenHeight);
    to work with the current screen height of a device without hardcoding it.

    > Design with CSS: J2ME Polish includes an optional GUI, which can be designed using the web standard CSS. Designers can work independently of programmers.

    > Standards compliant: Just use the standards and let J2ME Polish do the optimization work for you.

    > Open Source: J2ME Polish is licensed under the GPL, commercial licenses are available.

    > Ant based: integrates into every IDE.


    You can learn more about it at
    http://www.j2mepolish.org

    Cheers
    Robert

  2. #2
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    Pretty neat tool! I used antenna so far, which I like very much. Your Polish tool seems a lot cooler, though...

    What about signing MIDlets, will this be supported by J2ME Polish???

    - Patrick

  3. #3
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    cheers,

    the signing of midlets is a planned feature, but I don't know if it will make it into the 1.0 release.

    J2ME Polish can be extended quite easily, so when there's anybody willing to contribute... - get in touch!


    Best regards,
    Robert

  4. #4
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    The alpha-2 release makes the setup of J2ME Polish easier, now only the "preverify" attribute of the build.xml needs to be set.

    Thanks to all the Feedback so far!

    Cheers,
    Robert

    http://www.j2mepolish.org

  5. #5
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    enough
    There is not that much technical data on the site. At least not that kind of data, I would like to hear

    Is your Polish using Canvas to replicate Form functionality?
    Is it correct that it can also use Nokia FullCanvas?

    What's the library footprint? (obfuscated JAR size)
    What's the library minimal footprint? (If I remove everything, but exactly needed classes)

  6. #6
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    Also about the licensing.

    I am not the lawer, but it seems like you'd better consult with one.
    As far as I understand GPL you can NOT switch to the commerical license after making release version.
    Release version would be a derived product from current GPLed code, it will probably include some voluntary code. These voluntaries did their part of coding, because they new, that while they work on GPL, the whole project will be open.

    From my non-lawer point of view it look like you'll break your own GPL license if you will close the code later. Even if you decide to close some parts!

  7. #7
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    Hi Doctor Dwarf,

    thanks for the feedback!

    To the licensing: J2ME Polish is and will be published under the GPL. There are no plans to change this. Additional commercial licenses will be available when the alpha phase has been successfully finished. Maybe you could tell me what information you find misleading.

    Technical data:
    well, I just set up the website this week, so please bear with me ;-) The J2ME Polish screen-classes (Form, List, TextBox) do all extend Canvas, yes. But since you can specify that you want to use a full-screen-mode, they can also extend Nokia's FullCanvas. This behaviour can be set with the "useFullScreen" attribute of the J2ME Polish task. "How can this be?" you might ask. Well, this is done with the use of preprocessing and the device database.

    The minimal footprint depends on the actual application, i.e. what classes you actually use. Calculate around 15kb for the GUI. Bear in mind that the GUI is optional, though. So you can use the GUI for Series 60 phones, but do not use it for Series 40 phones, for example. Also it is possible to deactivate the GUI for all devices by setting the "usePolishGui" attribute to false. Thus the real minimal footprint is even "0 kb"! ;-)) Expect a further memory optimisation for the next releases.

    Hope that helps!

    Best regards,
    Robert

  8. #8
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    It's very nice as for Alpha release, I'll probably try it

    Also it is possible to deactivate the GUI for all devices by setting the "usePolishGui" attribute to false. Thus the real minimal footprint is even "0 kb"!

    Does this mean, that after setting usePolishGui your preprocessor will convert all the code into use of usual Forms?


    Your commerical licensing prices look quite affordable if the final release product implements all the promises.
    However, I still have concerns about the license.

    As far as I understand GPL, if you use GPLed code, you MUST publish your derived code under GPL, no other option available, GPL is a very agressive license.
    Your release version is definitely going to use GPL code. Hence it MUST use GPL only.

    Even if you SAY, that you provide release version under some commerical license, what if in the future lawers find out that you had no right for commerical licensing and all your releases are actually GPL. I suppose, that it will automatically make GPL all my programs that use J2ME Polish. This is very scary

    Once again, I'm not a lawer and never carefully studied free licences. I would be happy to hear from you, that you consulted some software lawer and my concerns are not true, because of some facts

  9. #9
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    Hi there again,

    thanks for your praise :-)

    To the licensing: there are actually many products dual licensed (that is under the GPL and a commercial license). This is absolutely okay with the GPL since it does not forbid a dual licensing. Just do a google- or slashdot-search on it. A famous example is OpenOffice, which is licensed under the GPL and under Sun's proprietary license (for the commercial version of OpenOffice - StarOffice).
    http://www.openoffice.org/white_pape.../strategy.html
    The GPL is indeed aggressive in the way that you cannot use foreign code for closed source projects (which is allowed by the LGPL for example).

    To the GUI stuff: as a programmer you do not need to use the J2ME Polish GUI directly, you just use the standard MIDP library. J2ME Polish will convert (preprocess) that code in order to make use of the advanced GUI. Obviously you can use the widgets of the J2ME Polish GUI directly as well. This is not described yet in the documentation, though... Most people want to use the standard anyhow - who wants to learn just another API? The cool stuff about J2ME Polish is that you can even use the MIDP/2.0 features of the UI on MIDP/1.0 phones. Not all of it works in the current release, though ;-))

    When you want to check out the alpha release, you just need to adjust the "preverify" attribute of the j2mepolish-task (in the provided build.xml file). Then you can create the examples just by calling ant. You will find the JARs and JADs in the "dist" folder when it succeeds.
    http://www.j2mepolish.org/docs/install.html

    Best regards,
    Robert

  10. #10
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    enough
    sorry, but you are wrong. Well, you are right, but you are still wrong

    OpebOffice itself might be published under GPL, BUT all its libraries, that contain the actual functionality are published under LGPL. GPLed code seems to be only glue for the libraries.

    That's exactly because once you made something GPL, its no longer yours, its public, and noone, even you can build proprietary product on it.

    Here is the citation from the OpenOffice licensing FAQ:
    Why is the LGPL license being used?

    As a member of the GPL license family, the GNU LGPL or "Lesser General Public License" will be used for the OpenOffice.org source code. The LGPL has all of the restrictions of the GPL except that you may use the code at compile-time without the derivative work becoming a GPL work. This allows the use of the code in proprietary works. The LGPL license is completely compatible with the GPL license. For more information see the OpenOffice.org. white paper from Sun.
    (c) http://www.openoffice.org/FAQs/faq-licensing.html#6

  11. #11
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    Hi Doctor Dwarf,

    okay, your're right that Open Office uses also the LGPL! Anyhow, there are still many projects which are using the GPL and commercial licenses at the same time - just like J2ME Polish. The GPL does indeed require that all derivative work needs to be published under the GPL again. That's why I have also commercial licenses for companies which do not want to publish their J2ME applications under the GPL. It is a misconception that I as the creator and owner of J2ME Polish cannot license my creations under several licensing schemes.
    Just google a bit and you'll find more about dual licensing. Another popular example is Trolltech's QT library, which is also licensed under the GPL and a commercial license.

    Best regards from Bremen,
    yours Robert

    PS: Have you checked out J2ME Polish already?

  12. #12
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    Okay, sorry for annoying you and maybe confusing somebody else, I'll check those licenses a bit more
    It is a misconception that I as the creator and owner of J2ME Polish cannot license my creations under several licensing schemes
    I just though that once you published anything under GPL you are no more an owner, public is owner. And you become only one of the authors, though most cool one.

    No, I haven't checked Polish yet. Unfortunately at the moment I have lots of C++ work under strict deadlines and I am far from my J2ME workstation

  13. #13
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    Hi again,

    no probs at all - and thanks for your feedback!

    You're right that the GPL is given the code to the public, therefore anybody has the right to create derivative versions of it, BUT these versions need to be published under the GPL again. Such a person could not sell this derivative version under a different license, since this version is based on GPL'ed code. Since I created the code, it does not base on GPL'ed code, so I am free to license it under any version I like.

    Hope you can check out J2ME Polish soon! Would be delighted to hear your feedback!

    Cheers,
    Robert

  14. #14
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    Alpha-4 release

    The alpha-4 milestone has been released on schedule.

    Now the only missing GUI item is the ticker. TextField, DateField and TextBox have been implemented for this milestone.

    Get your copy at http://www.j2mepolish.org

    Thanks to all of you and your valueable feedback!

    Cheers & best regards,
    Robert

  15. #15
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    Haven't tried it, but I just checked out the webpage and the screenshots certainly looks sweet.
    Good work.

    shmoove

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