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  1. #1
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    Angry Nokia 6101 Locked 2 TMobile Midlet can't access internet...

    Hi,

    We have a verisign code signing certificate, works well on MOST devices we have run into until now.

    On the Nokia Series 40 6101 With TMobile and 5.99 TZones, our midlet cannot access the internet. Now before I get a barrage of useless comments about TZones and the blocking of port 80 I'd like to point out that I am aware of TMobiles behaviours with different Devices and http connections, i.e. midlet works on a branded unlocked Nokia 6010 from TMobile using sim card but does not work on branded locked Nokia 6101 using same sim card.

    on the 6101, their is a setting if your application is selected, under application->options stating "App. Access" but it is greyed out, when you click it, you get an info message "Not available for this application". I tried signing the application with the Verisign cert, but when trying to download, i get an error "certificate not on phone or sim"

    i read through the forums, that this may be caused by lack of CA certificate on device, for instance device lists "Verisign class 3 code signing 2001 CA" as being installed, where the intermediate in our certificate is "Verisign class 3 code signing 2004 CA". So this might be an issue, I tried manually installing the CA certs, but cannot get the devices browser to download them (might be IIS, even though I set the correct mime type) so this failed.

    i read through the forums, that you may be able to overcome the "app. access" feature being greyed out, by manually installing the application using infrared and pc suite, installation worked, but still have same issue of "app. access" being disabled. so i manually copied the jar and jad over using infrared, the jad file is not a recognized file type on device, so is useless to try and run/install it (BTW also tried this approach with CA certs, with same results) but you can install the jar, though after install, app. access is still disabled

    when you run the application, and it attempts to connect to internet, the system throws an info message of "Application access set to not allowed". In the Nokia manual for this device, they state that "app. access" needs to be set or modified for an application to access the internet, but what is the use, if the user is not allowed to change it. Thus basically in the devices current state, a java app will run, but never be allowed to access the internet.

    i browsed more forums, reading all about tweaking the access points, which helped some people with the 6101, but did not help me, nor how could it, think about it, the applications permissions are unchangeable, how would adding an access point, overcome the issue with the java midlet not even being able to open the http connection, before, or as you attempt to open the connection using code, the user is prompted to allow disallow access, but this, and the cr$ppy samsung, dont even prompt the user, they just automatically throw a security exception (yes the network code is on a different thread, even experimented with same thread, just in case, to no avail) so none of the access point settings helped. if anyone reads this, that has a nokia 6101 that was originally branded as TMobile and has a midlet where the "app. access" is not greyed out, i would love to hear it, as well as how it was accomplished.

    back to the signing, when i signed my app, and manually copied to device, i.e. no OTA, when attempting to run, i get certificate not valid error. I tried signing with no permissions, with permissions as optional, with permissions as both optional and required, to no avail.

    i tried an unsigned version, with no permissions, as well as with the http permission as required, hoping this might enable the "app. access" but did not work.

    so does anyone know, how to sign an midlet to be installed on a tmobile branded device, has anyone ever succeded? if yes, did you manually install the CA certificates, or were they already installed?

    Is it true to assume that no midlet can be signed for tmobile, unless it is JavaVerified signed? If this is true, then what the heck, as the 6101 is one of the lead devices to be tested on, for JavaVerified signing, how can you build you application correctly, so it will run bug free on 6101, if you cant even test on it.

    Anyone out there with 6101 devices please post your results to this little questionaire.

    1. Carrier: XXX
    2. DataPlan: XXX
    3. Geo. Location: XXX
    4. Model: 6101
    5. Firmware: i.e. get it by entering *#0000#, please state date, version, and RM if any
    6. Do Midlets you installed, acces the internet, with no error? yes/No
    7. Do Midlets you installed, under options, have the "app. access" greyed out. Yes/No
    8. When running one of these MIDlets, are you prompted to allow the Midlet to access the internet? Yes/No

    Does anyone know any magic codes, to enable the java midlet access to internet, or jad attributes, etc.

    I have also read, that just being javaverified, may not help, as some manufacturers and carriers, give and or take away various permissions at their will. It would seriously suck to get javaverified, just to find out that it still does not give the app acces to the internet.

    Any help, information, comments, feedback, results to questions, would be greatly appreciated.

    PS: If anyone has a javaverified signed app that makes httpconnections, i would love to download, and test it on 6101, to see what the outcome is, to see if java verified really works on this device. also if others have run into the same issue, with tmobile and their app working on some devices, but not on other tmobile nokia devices, or a signed app working on some devices, but not other tmobile devices, please list them

    Sincerely,
    Jason Glass
    http://IChiBanComputers.Com

  2. #2
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    Re: Nokia 6101 Locked 2 TMobile Midlet can't access internet...

    Help?

    Please!

    Sincerely,
    Jason Glass
    http://IChiBanComputers.Com

  3. #3
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    Re: Nokia 6101 Locked 2 TMobile Midlet can't access internet...

    still no takers? has anyone had luck with the 6101 or 6102, I called nokia, but of course they were no use, they blamed it on tmobile, though it also happens on cingular.

    I think nokia screwed up, or it is a "feature", yeah right
    Jason Glass
    http://IChiBanComputers.Com

  4. #4
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    Have you bought a support incident within Nokia Forum PRO or was this the usual device support channel?

  5. #5
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    Re: Nokia 6101 Locked 2 TMobile Midlet can't access internet...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Glass
    still no takers? has anyone had luck with the 6101 or 6102, I called nokia, but of course they were no use, they blamed it on tmobile, though it also happens on cingular.

    I think nokia screwed up, or it is a "feature", yeah right
    Yes, there are intentionally different security policies on device variants. If the variant has the UTI root, then going through Java Verified would help for most carriers. However some carriers have their own certifications and there is nothing we can do about that. It appears that this is the case that you are seeing for these variants on T-Mobile USA and maybe Cingular.

    Sorry I couldn't get a better answer but it is what it is.

    Ron

  6. #6
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    Re: Nokia 6101 Locked 2 TMobile Midlet can't access internet...

    Traud, no, just going through this channel, a friend(programmer) also tried it out on 6101 and 6102, with no luck. So then i realised, it was probably not something in my code.

    I dont want to buy a ticket, as Rons posts stated, those devienets they are throwing in, are supposedly being requested by carrier, so the heresay/rumour has it on the web.

    It is just completely ignorant though, that you call TMobile, and they have no idea what you are talking about! How can they sell devices, where one, older model works fine with HTTP, then newer models don't, and not even have the foresight to tell there tech support about it, or list it in the specs.
    Jason Glass
    http://IChiBanComputers.Com

  7. #7
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    Re: Nokia 6101 Locked 2 TMobile Midlet can't access internet...

    Thanks for the info Ron,

    Should'nt this be listed in the device details, because as to be MIDP 2.0 compliant, I thought Suns docs stated that you (manufacturer) have to allow http, with proper permissions

    Or is that the issue, you are allowing it, but TMobile and Cingular is not.

    Can you tell me if an unbranded model (6101 or 6102) allows access to the internet by MIDlets, or allows user to change "App" or "Web" access Midlet suite permissions?

    Is there any documentation where I or other developers, could have found this out beforehand, it just completely bytes, when you start running into devices as such.

    The documentation put out by Nokia, does not state an issue. it almost seems, that TMobile, is giving Nokia a black eye, in that Nokia, puts out this nice device, perfect for developers, TMobile gets it, screws it all up by locking it down, the customer gets it, realises he/she cannot run any Internet MIDlets on it, returns it, and Nokia ships out one less device the next week, all because of TMobile, or to be more precise, TMobile or Cingular, or other carriers.

    I think a sticky thread should be created, pertaining to these devices, so developers, customers, etc. could find out quickly that the device does not support this feature, or that API, due to a carrier, not due to Nokia

    Utmost Sincerity
    Jason Glass
    http://IChiBanComputers.Com

  8. #8
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    Re: Nokia 6101 Locked 2 TMobile Midlet can't access internet...

    Hi Jason,

    My understanding is that this is going to be the same for the carrier no matter what brand of device. But if you feel passionately it is probably something you could discuss on the product support discussion boards. http://discussions.nokia.co.uk/discussions/

    Ron

  9. #9
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    Have you made sure your JAD is correct for signing? This VeriSign intermediate is a problem for many developers because the tools muck them up and do not include them into the JAD correctly.
    Last edited by traud; 2009-06-30 at 17:08.

  10. #10
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    Re: Nokia 6101 Locked 2 TMobile Midlet can't access internet...

    Yeah the jad should be correct, it includes the two entries, it was created using WTK signing tool, not the Nokia one, as I heard about the issues with that.

    The http permission was tested as both required and optional in jad

    an employee of Nokia tried the signed app on an unlocked 6102, and the signed app installed fine.

    Wont install, on TMObile 6101 or Cingular 6102 though.

    the unlocked 6102, also did not throw security exceptions, as well as the user could change the midlet suites web access permissions

    So it looks like again, it is the carriers doing, and not Nokias
    Jason Glass
    http://IChiBanComputers.Com

  11. #11
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    If the signed application worked on another Nokia but not on this 6101 and the certificate is there, then the certificate is not allowed for code siging. Have you looked at the permissions of the Verisign certificate on the phone itself?
    Nokia > Menu > Web > Settings > Authority certificates > Certificate list > highlight Verisign Code Signing > Options > Select use > Application signing > should be marked (value cannot be changed by user)

    If a signed application does not install on one phone, however, it works on another one, you have to go for a different CA. UTI would be a good choice…this was not the answer you wanted to read – because I cannot garantee you will get your permissions with Java Verified either. Have a look at the certificates and their permissions on the phone. Perhaps this is the culprit already.
    Last edited by traud; 2006-03-30 at 10:21.

  12. #12
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    Re: Nokia 6101 Locked 2 TMobile Midlet can't access internet...

    Traud,

    We returned the device, as could not use it for testing, though now, after your hints, I might like to screw with one again.

    I dont really remember what it listed for the permissions for the verisign certificate, if i remember correctly, there were only two permissions, where I am used to seeing three, and i do not recall one of them being the usual app signing.

    Yes true, that is a good point, the UTI certificate was their, but also forgot to see what it said, I should create a spreadsheet for recording these device details as branded by carrier.

    So what do you think was up with the 6102, from Cingular, the exact same thing?

    This whole mess kinda bytes, you have to brand your app as "oh yeah works on all Nokia, unless it is from XXX carrier", and were not exactly sure on the carrier, as they jump back and forth between allowing and not allowing.

    What also stinks, is the 6101 is listed as a lead device, to get JavaVerified, yet we cant test on it?

    Sin.
    Jason Glass
    http://IChiBanComputers.Com

  13. #13
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    Re: Nokia 6101 Locked 2 TMobile Midlet can't access internet...

    oh, man, i just confirmed a suspicion.

    Our app is also not running on Samsung T809 and Samsung X495, when I tested them, I could have sworn the OS seemed similar to Nokia, and almost exact same as Nokia 6101.

    I asked previously if Samsungs ran Symbian, but no one responded, I just saw a post stating a guy was complaining about a Samsung XXX with series 60 OS not running his app.

    Now it is all starting to come together. Do the Samsung T809 and X495 run Series 60 OS, cus if they do, it would kinda explain a little the behaviour we are seeing from TMobile purchased devices.

    I.e. TMobile is tweaking the security policies on these devices massively, making them useless to us and consumers, unless the consumer gets a javaverified application. While I am not an opensource person, this behaviour would kill the opensource industry because of the cost of getting something that is supposed to be free tested.
    Jason Glass
    http://IChiBanComputers.Com

  14. #14
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    Re: Nokia 6101 Locked 2 TMobile Midlet can't access internet...

    The current S60 phones can be seen at http://www.s60.com/products
    There are Samsung models, but not those ones.

    Also Nokia 6101 is not a S60 phone, but it is a Series 40 phone based on Nokia proprietary OS (not Symbian)

    Hartti

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    Re: Nokia 6101 Locked 2 TMobile Midlet can't access internet...

    Heh, sadly I too have this nifty little phone (nokia 6101) from T-Mobile and tried to use OperaMini and Flurrymail and yet also get these same problems with not being able to alter the 'App. Access' since it's completely greyed out.

    So let me understand this, this is the case because these applications don't have the certificate? If so then would there be a way to uhh... lets say... put a certificate on there?

    And the 6101's app. access is not an issue for anyone who actually have brought one that was non-branded?

    Guess T-Mobile don't want me to use their 5.99 internet service unless I get a more expensive phone from them -_-

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